Battery drain

Archives of Posts to the NZ MX5 List back in 2005
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Jon Addison

Battery drain

Post by Jon Addison » Tue Sep 06, 2005 5:53 pm

Has anyone else encountered this problem and come up with any ideas
about it. My 1990 NA seems to drain its battery too quickly. I've had
the charging rate and the drain checked - charge rate spot-on and the
drain 45milliamp, mostly from the after-market immobiliser. The battery
is a new Panasonic factory-type and has also checked out OK.
The car is NZ new, so has no electrical bits like boot light or
under-bonnet light, which could stay on sometimes.
Parked in the garage, warm and dry, the battery runs down too far to
start the car in just three weeks. After jump starting it charges
without problem and is fine for a couple of weeks.

Jon

ianbell
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Battery drain

Post by ianbell » Tue Sep 06, 2005 7:34 pm

I have the same problem. I have an immobiliser alarm on but that is all. My
battery is a lead/acid type about 3 years old, but charges up ok and the car
starts fine if used every week. Leave it for 2 weeks and it won't turn the
engine over, but lights etc are ok
Ian Bell
CHN433

EricW
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Battery drain

Post by EricW » Tue Sep 06, 2005 7:55 pm

Seems to be the common experience, particularly with cars fitted with Alarms
& Immobilisers. I left mine in the garage for a fortnight, with the alarm
on, while I was overseas and it was flatter than a flat thing when I got
back, again a fairly new battery.

They do internally leak (self discharge) a bit and, with other things
running, it does not take much to be below cranking level after a relatively
short time.

Eric

EricW
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Battery drain

Post by EricW » Tue Sep 06, 2005 8:16 pm

Just a thought, Of course, the fact that the battery is in the boot means
that there is a fair amount of cable between it and the starter.

I'm not sure how heavy the cables are, but there is probably a fair amount
of voltage drop over that length, through a light cable, and if the battery
is off a couple of volts in the first place, it probably would run the
lights, but would drop well below what is needed for the starter

Eric

KSCRIM
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Battery drain

Post by KSCRIM » Tue Sep 06, 2005 9:07 pm

The battery in the MX5 is quite small. Only about 33 Amp Hours. With a 45 mA
drain the battery will be completly flat in about 35 days. This is assuming
that the battery is absolutely fully charged, which in the case of the MX5
(and most cars actually) is unlikely, as charging systems are not really up
to doing a full charge in the length of time we run them for, eg round town
running.
Even a 3 or 4 Hr run won't fully charge the battery!!
Our Subarus at work struggle to last for 10 days of non use!!!
I think that 2 to 3 weeks unused is the norm for a non start condition, 3
weeks is actually quite good!!!.
As Eric has said, the voltage drop in the main lead from the battery to the
starter (where all the other loads come off), is a bit on the small side and
the voltage drop is enough to cause the ignition to not work. The lights
will also dim a lot when the starter is operated.
I am monitoring my battery voltage closely, (measured on the memory feed to
the radio as its the closest point), the float voltage after a few days is
12V and when cranking goes down below 11V. The alternator is brings the
battery up to 14.8V initially, dropping down to 14.5V after half an hour.
The battery is still nowhere near fully charged at this point.
If anyone is interested I have a second offset zero volt meter which plugs
into the cigarette lighter, if you want to try it to see what is going on. I
live in Massey.

Kevin Scrimgeour

[...]

From supasparky@yahoo.co.uk Fri Apr 27 17:33:09 2007
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Date: Tue, 6 Sep 2005 11:05:50 +0100 (BST)
From: glenn roberts <supasparky@yahoo.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Battery drain
To: MX5List <mx5list@mx5club.org.nz>
In-Reply-To: <002c01c5b2bb$52845580$4106b9d2@your5139538146>
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Ive had the same problem, and made up a battery
maintainer from an old ryobi battery drill charger.
Its from a 12 volt battery drill and i added a 10
watt 10 ohm resistor in line to keep the charge
current below what the charge pack was rated at.
I also fitted a couple of alligator clips
What i ended up with was a "charger" that feeds about
30 milliamps into the battery constantly to keep the
battery topped up when left for long periods.
You could probably source the battery drill chargers
from a powertool repairer for nothing.
At this charge current, it only takes a week of
charging to take the battery from a "non starting"
condition to starting with all the car load switched off.

Glenn "SLYDIT"
http://miata.cardomain.com/id/supasparky
Currently building a DIY Turbo..Subaru VF10 Turbo, Weld el manifold, 2.5"exhaust,subaru BOV, Isuzu intercooler, 330cc GTX injectors, dual feed fuel rail,RX7 air flow meter, Greddy Emanage piggy back computor.Custom full length cold air box...YEEEEEHHHAAA
Hopefully finished by summer:)
Kevin 2010 NC PRHT. (98 NB6C sold)

poison
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Battery drain

Post by poison » Tue Sep 06, 2005 10:14 pm

Good article Kevin

I have about 5 multi-meters for various purposes, and I am ashamed to ask
what is an "offset zero volt meter" please? I've a feeling I should know
this.

The modern power house car stereo can also be a battery and possibly
alternator killer, I've had a couple of cars with car stereos that would
draw more than the alternator could put out at lower revs. And at night I
could not have the stereo up loud on a long trip with the lights on or I
could not stop the car on the way.

Gazza
"PO1SON"
:twisted: Gazda in the white HOT Mazda :twisted:

poison
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Battery drain

Post by poison » Tue Sep 06, 2005 10:18 pm

Hi Glenn

Do you still need to disconnect the battery earth to protect the alternator
at this low rate? I've done the same for my Jet Ski with an old laptop power
supply, but that's a generator and can be left on-line while charging (At
least I think it's OK, hasn't died yet).

Cheers

Gazza
"PO1SON"
:twisted: Gazda in the white HOT Mazda :twisted:

Grant
Need, more, 5-ing, time....
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Battery drain

Post by Grant » Tue Sep 06, 2005 10:35 pm

An offset zero meter is usually an analogue that has a restricted range. The
meter is arranged to respond only once the voltage is above a predetermined
value so you get a greater movement of the meter for a small voltage change.
Increases the resolution.
They are quite simple to make. I made some a few years ago and they were set
to read from 10 to 15 volts. Zero on the meter was 10volts (or less) and the
scale was then linear to a full scale reading of 15 volts. Much easier to
see rapid voltage changes than any digital instrument can dsiplay. Readily
shows the voltage drop when cranking the engine. This is hard to read on a
digital meter.

Grant.
Red 2006 NC Tiptronic
FIX A PC

Grant
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Battery drain

Post by Grant » Tue Sep 06, 2005 10:46 pm

I've never had a problem with connecting a charger to the battery and
leaving everything else connected. All mine are voltage and current limiting
so cannot overcharge the battery or cause a high voltage in the event of the
battery going open circuit. My largest charger is capable of a constant 25
amps and that is often used. The important thing to be aware of is to ensure
the battery temperature never rises much above ambient when charging. This
certainly won't happen with a low current (about 1 amp) charger.
The maximum charge current should never be more than c/3, so for the 33 a/h
of the MX5 battery a maximum current of 11 amps would be safe as a rule of
thumb. Very short term higher current though won't hurt. With the long leads
to the MX5 battery in normal service, the alternator would very rarely be
able to supply any more than the 11 amps anyway. The most I have measured on
my NA car was around 8amps when the battery was so flat it only just started
the car.
Grant.
Red 2006 NC Tiptronic
FIX A PC

poison
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Battery drain

Post by poison » Tue Sep 06, 2005 10:47 pm

Great thanks, I only have one analogue meter, I should use it more as the
old digital can give odd or false readings now and again.
:twisted: Gazda in the white HOT Mazda :twisted:

KSCRIM
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Battery drain

Post by KSCRIM » Tue Sep 06, 2005 10:55 pm

an offset zero volt meter starts at (in my case) 11V and goes to 15V,
instead of the normal meter which starts at 0V. It allows a wider spread per
volt on the scale.

Kevin


[...]
Kevin 2010 NC PRHT. (98 NB6C sold)

Grant
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Battery drain

Post by Grant » Tue Sep 06, 2005 11:03 pm

You could use your analogue meter as a simple suppressed zero meter. Just
get a 10 volt zener diode and a 1k ohm resistor. Connect the zener in series
with the resistor and connect the voltmeter across the resistor. There will
be a 10 volt drop across the zener so until the applied voltage (across the
zener and resistor) is above the 10 volts, the meter won't read anything. If
13 volts is applied then there will be 10 across the zener and 3 volts
across the resistor (indicating 3 on the voltmeter). 15 volts will result in
5 volts on the meter. Simple, cheap and easy to make in a hurry. Not the
best way to do it but it will work.

Grant.
Red 2006 NC Tiptronic
FIX A PC

KSCRIM
Need, more, 5-ing, time....
Need, more, 5-ing, time....
Posts: 137
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Battery drain

Post by KSCRIM » Tue Sep 06, 2005 11:05 pm

Yes they are easy to make, the zero offset is done with a zener diode and
the range is selected by the value of the series resistor. Calibration does
require a precision digital meter for accuracy.
I have made up a 1 A voltage limited charger. I connected a small socket
with a series diode and fuse for safety to the battery, and have the
matching plug on the charger. The socket lives in the boot on the end of its
cable.

Kevin


[...]
Kevin 2010 NC PRHT. (98 NB6C sold)

KSCRIM
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Need, more, 5-ing, time....
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Battery drain

Post by KSCRIM » Tue Sep 06, 2005 11:08 pm

I happened to have some side reading meters with a 70mm scale length which I
made my meter with. I included a light for night monitoring.

Kevin


[...]
Kevin 2010 NC PRHT. (98 NB6C sold)

Ian
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I count 5-s in my sleep
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Battery drain

Post by Ian » Tue Sep 13, 2005 11:09 pm

Jon...

I have a small 'plug in' type 900mamp charger "Projector' brand from Repco
which is of the 'charge and maintain' variety. It has good long leads as
standard and easily reaches my NA battery. This may suit you...
Projector also make a 1600mamp version.

Cheers
93 1.8,intake/ex mods,Megasqirt PNP,torsen ,konis,GC coilovers,Nitto-01,cage,sparco seat,Schroth harness.

Jon Addison

Battery drain

Post by Jon Addison » Wed Sep 14, 2005 8:54 am

Thanks, I'll check at Repco - sounds like a good bet.
Jon
On 13/09/2005, at 11:09 PM, Ian Wooster wrote:

[...]

From Douglas.Ormrod@neurological.org.nz Fri Apr 27 17:32:18 2007
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Subject: RE: Battery drain
Date: Wed, 14 Sep 2005 13:17:49 +1200
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From: "Douglas Ormrod" <Douglas.Ormrod@neurological.org.nz>
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This may be a silly question - but is it possible to plug a trickle
charger into the cigarette lighter socket and keep it charged that way?
Cars in the 30's - 50's sometimes had sockets on the dashboard for that
purpose. Or could a socket be fitted somewhere unobtrusive on the
outside of the rear of car to simplify the charging process - after all
the MX5 battery is a pain to get at?

Douglas

From jifjif@gmail.com Fri Apr 27 17:32:18 2007
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Subject: Re: Battery drain
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yep, you can. You can even get those solar powered trickle chargers
that do this.

The rear -ve terminal could also be skipped in lieu of clipping on to
the chassis somewhere.

One of you *real* sparkies might want to pipe in on this ... :)


On 9/14/05, Douglas Ormrod <Douglas.Ormrod@neurological.org.nz> wrote:
[...]

Ian
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I count 5-s in my sleep
Posts: 439
Joined: Fri May 19, 2006 3:39 pm
Location: Arrowtown

Battery drain

Post by Ian » Wed Sep 14, 2005 2:52 pm

Douglas...
See my post to Jon re the Projector Chargeand Maintain charger...works a
treat!!!

From supasparky@yahoo.co.uk Fri Apr 27 17:32:17 2007
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Date: Wed, 14 Sep 2005 04:39:27 +0100 (BST)
From: glenn roberts <supasparky@yahoo.co.uk>
Subject: RE: Big FAT Wheels
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If you want grip then stay at 16" or below...

I'm running 16x7" with a 35mm offset and
205/45/16's and they rub the front gaurds and im only
on the middle of my konis perch height settings.
If you want grip then go with the 16" wheels with a
wider tyre in say 225/40/16.
The smaller sidewall height allowable on a 17 will
ruin youre straight line grip as theres no give.
You can go wider in a 16" tyre because theres more
wheel diameter to play with until you get serious
gaurd rub.
I think a 16x8 with 225/40 on a 35-40mm offset wheel
is about as large as id go...(youd have to roll the
gaurds slightly)


Glenn "SLYDIT"
http://miata.cardomain.com/id/supasparky
Currently building a DIY Turbo..Subaru VF10 Turbo, Weld el manifold, 2.5"exhaust,subaru BOV, Isuzu intercooler, 330cc GTX injectors, dual feed fuel rail,RX7 air flow meter, Greddy Emanage piggy back computor.Custom full length cold air box...YEEEEEHHHAAA
Hopefully finished by summer:)
93 1.8,intake/ex mods,Megasqirt PNP,torsen ,konis,GC coilovers,Nitto-01,cage,sparco seat,Schroth harness.

KSCRIM
Need, more, 5-ing, time....
Need, more, 5-ing, time....
Posts: 137
Joined: Thu May 18, 2006 8:46 pm
Location: West Auckland

Battery drain

Post by KSCRIM » Wed Sep 14, 2005 5:12 pm

Unfortunatly, the cigarette lighter is usually switched off and on by the
ignition (via a relay).
It is possible to modify the wiring to leave the lighter socket on at all
times.
I fitted an charging socket via a fuse and a diode straight to the battery.
At the moment it is on a short lead which I leave inside the boot, (the
socket and diode are mounted in an old plastic film canister,) and bring
outside when I want to charge the battery. I am still considering as to
mounting the socket outside.
I made up a 1 amp charger for trickle charging.

Kevin.


[...]
Kevin 2010 NC PRHT. (98 NB6C sold)

EricW
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Joined: Wed May 24, 2006 7:07 pm
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Battery drain

Post by EricW » Wed Sep 14, 2005 6:24 pm

The screw which retains the spare wheel actually works quite well as an
earth, I have jump started the car and charged it using that as an earth

Eric

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