Darth Vader Miata

harlansmart · Post by **harlansmart** » Sat Mar 17, 2012 11:48 am

EEExactly what I am thinking... would a flexi it's own take enough of the 'working' off of the studs for the juncture to stay fixed do you reckon?

last_resort14 wrote:I had similar issues with my greddy setup, originally had it just braced to the bellhousing, this mount tore itself off leaving a hole in the downpipe, best way would to have a brace to the bellhousing and then a flexi join in the exhaust just after that,

WideOpenThrottle · Post by **WideOpenThrottle** » Sat Mar 17, 2012 12:07 pm

My turbo doesn't have a gasket and it used to leak until i disconnected the pcv valve & vented to atmosphere[you need to plug the manifold too where it is connected to to prevent vacumm loss].
The wear in my old engine caused blow-by pressure from turbo boost which in turn caused the leak!

last_resort14 · Post by **last_resort14** » Sat Mar 17, 2012 1:27 pm

a flexi on its own would help,
The way i see it is that without the brace the problem could come from both ends, eg, if the exhaust system moved at the rear it would be levering on the manifold/turbo, but also when you accelerate/decelerate your engine will twist quite a bit, causing the same thing.

If the downpipe was braced to the bellhousing there would definitely be no movement at the manifold/turbo/downpipe connections, and the flexi would allow the rest of the system to move. that is how i have my current setup

sprsta · Post by **sprsta** » Sat Mar 17, 2012 5:11 pm

i had a bracket on the down pipe and a flexi
worked well

harlansmart · Post by **harlansmart** » Wed Mar 21, 2012 6:45 pm

Hoky Doky,

Went & saw Carl today down the road at Takapuna Mufflers and now have a brace temporarily installed, once we've installed a new gasket between the turbo & mani the brace will be fitted (welded) on permanently ... a flexi has been (initially) deemed unnecessary but if things keep coming lose we'll install one... we have lifted the whole 2.5" pipe that runs unabated the length of the underside higher up as initially it hung down a bit & the flexi would've been even lower… as Carl has it now a big flexi will be no issue.

Will take a decent pic when the thing is back on the hoist getting the job finished but need to find a metal gasket for the Greddy Mani/TD04 interface now... and the time to pull it down & install again.

Cost $175 and very happy w/ Carls efforts.

SLYDIT · Post by **SLYDIT** » Wed Mar 21, 2012 10:51 pm

to clamp the down pipe to the bell housing, use a D clamp fitting to clamp the pipe. That way it wont tear off. then use a simple bit of flat bar to join the clamp to the bell housing.(bolted connections)
i havent had any issues with my DP brace.

welded tabs are always going to be problematic.

BTW my exhaust setup is almost exactly the same setup as that pictured by sprsta. it uses an 18" coby and then an offset rotary rear muffler just like that pictured

harlansmart · Post by **harlansmart** » Sun Apr 01, 2012 1:14 pm

Thanks SLYDIT, my exhaust is very similar to whats pictured also - the welding is just for the nice plate he's made, its not welded to the tube and I agree it would likely fail if done that way (i.e. he's used a 'D=Clamp' as you suggest).

Anyway, finally I'm almost there (I think) - I took the suggestion of Euen and visited the Bolt Shop on Archers Road, and have 8 M10 Brass Exhaust Bolts at a healthy $75 odd dollars or about $10 each, phew.

After that I popped down to Altech Diesel and Turbo where Born_disturbed had suggested I go talk to Chris. Chris tells you BD (david) to get your car on the road (ROLF). He sold me the studs and the Copper nuts to hold the Turbo on, the Copper nuts to hold the turbo on have sort of lock parts with cuts in them which I will not install backward like all the bolts have been till this point. 'Yes!' - all the nuts which were coming lose on the stubs fixing the turbo on were all on backward, perhaps if they'd been installed the correct way round they may not have kept coming undone.

Anyway, next chance I get I will unbolt everything and put it all together w/ all the new parts, I have a single layer metal gasket for the Mani/Trubo interface.

I really want to say THANK YOU to Chris & Altech Diesel and Turbo because you point out what many many other have missed, the nuts are ll installed backward…

A lot of people in the trade have been looking at these nuts and they've all failed to notice this glaring fault... all the locking parts of the special 'Loc-nuts' were installed upside down and simply got smashed/mashed into the faces they're bolted up to instead of securing to the threads:(

Born_disturbed · Post by **Born_disturbed** » Sun Apr 01, 2012 1:45 pm

Silly Chris.. my car has been on the road for over a week

Glad he managed to sort you out with what you needed

harlansmart · Post by **harlansmart** » Wed Apr 04, 2012 11:19 am

Hi again MX5 Forum,

Last night I soaked all the nuts and studs on the manifold and turbo etc and I got up at sparrows fart to do this job but I have run into a small-medium sized snag.

The 2 rearward studs/threads holding the turbo to the manifold are not good, I eventually managed to remove the drivers side stud but its threads are manked and so do the threads in the manifold appear a bit manly also (Pic. 2). The other (passenger side) rearward stud eventually snapped after about an hour of wiggling it back and forward w/ CRC… it's got about ½ a nut worth of thread sticking out and I can still wind in in and out about a turn or so but it isn't coming out any further w/ my equipment/skill level I'm afraid.

So I said to myself, 'oh stuff it I will take the manifold off and just get on my racing bike and off and take it to a mate of a mate down in Wairau Valley somewhere who has some sort of machine shop get him to easy out and re-cut or whatever is required…

But, I cannot get the manifold off the head, I have tried wiggling hitting and levering w/ a crow bar and pieces of wood etc but it appears I will need to splay the sections to make room, it's all jammed hard against the studs... if you look at that last picture you can see the studs are hard pressed against the front edge of the holes in the manifold and pressed hard against the rearward part of the holes in the back half of the manifold.

I though about hitting some flathead screwdrivers into the splits but… something to do with my equipment /skill level made me wipe my hands and head here:)

What can I do, I need the stud in the manifold removed and the 2 threads cleaned up.

PS: You can see the problem, a busted gasket (FWIW the busted gasket is a fat 3 layer piece whilst my replacement is a skinny single layer one...

punkoutnz · Post by **punkoutnz** » Wed Apr 04, 2012 12:38 pm

From memory there's 9 studs holding on the turbo manifold, did you get all 9 undone? The stud that's second rear most (ie the next one in from the back of the head, underneath the manifold) also holds the metal coolant hose that goes to your heater core, make sure that isn't what's holding you in there if it's rusted to the stud or something like that.

harlansmart · Post by **harlansmart** » Wed Apr 04, 2012 1:32 pm

Yip,

Thanks you for making me go check again but I can see the whole manifold, and can feel all around it there are 9 nuts and all are removed, that coolant-type-looking pipe (goes nowhere) which hangs on a little bracket of the 3rd or 4th stud on back on the bottom row and goes nowhere isn't hindering things, it's all wiggly and lose now the nut is off its stud - also, is there any reason I can't cut that pipe closer it's source... its goes right past the head then is cut & blocked.. about 35cms of worthless pipe it looks to be to me?

Yessiree, pretty sure the mani is stuck because she's jammed against the studs.

I don't want to wreck the studs or manifold they both look great - I'll take a better pic.... here you go...

harlansmart · Post by **harlansmart** » Wed Apr 04, 2012 2:10 pm

If I go and buy some tools do you reckon I can fix this issue in situ?

Euen · Post by **Euen** » Wed Apr 04, 2012 2:23 pm

It could be done in situ but would be a lot easier if you got it out. I had to do a similar job for my son's 180SX at the weekend. Looking at the state of the stud that you have removed, I would say that you will need 4 new ones if the others are like that. You will need to re-tap the holes in the manifold as well. If the holes are blind, you will need a "bottoming" or "plug" tap to get right down to the bottom of the thread. If the threads are really bad you may be looking at fitting helicoils or something similar but it would need an experienced machinist to do that and it is not something you would do in situ.

To get the manifold off you may need to apply leverage at both ends so that the pessure is releatively even along the length of the manifold. This stops it trying to come off the studs at an angle which makes it more difficult.

Sorry to sound so pessimistic but if you want to get the full enjoyment out of it without it breaking every 5 minutes, then you need to fix it properly.

harlansmart · Post by **harlansmart** » Wed Apr 04, 2012 2:49 pm

Cheers for the support, appreciate it a lot.

'Yes' - wholeheartedly agree Euen - thus far AKAIK I have done everything as best I can, it has been those before me who have all the fasteners backward etc… I bought the car w/ this problem as well.

I have the 4 new studs (see piccy below), new metal gasket for the turbo, new 3 layer metal $75 manifold gasket, new $80 Manifold Brass nuts, new copper loc-nuts for these studs and also new copper loc-nuts to hold the back of the turbo together, I 'd not anticipated the studs breaking nor the stud threads being damaged (might have guessed I s'pose sods law) - the 2 front studs are in good condition it's the 2 rears which are screwed.

Ok – have tried again this thing is stuck on... unless I can do it in situ I need to get it off I can't carry the whole MX5 on my bike:(

If I buy some drills and an ezy-out kit and a tap set maybe I can do it here at home.. or will the dump pipe be in the way, its hard to get off due to the bolts locations.

WideOpenThrottle · Post by **WideOpenThrottle** » Wed Apr 04, 2012 5:25 pm

If you put two nuts back on each stud & lock them together tight it may allow you to unwind a few studs giving you more play to remove the mani!

SLYDIT · Post by **SLYDIT** » Wed Apr 04, 2012 8:39 pm

try wedging a chisel or screw driver in those releif cuts to releive the pressue on the holes.
it looks like the outer ends of the mani have closed in towards the center section.

on my manifold i drilled the outer most holes at 11.5mm (may have even been 12mm) so that the manifold wont bind on the studs.

harlansmart · Post by **harlansmart** » Sat Apr 14, 2012 10:34 am

Right,

Round of thanks to:

(1.) Euen who took the time to visit me, solve my thread issues w/ skill and tooling then he was nice enough to take away my new studs and shorten them so I could get the copper nuts on them a lot more easily. Euen you're AWESOME, thank you very much mate.

(2.) Chris from Wairau Road Deisel & Turbo for his help and advice and safety-wire and other bits & bobs, cheers very much mate (oh and I'm telling David 'GET STUFFED' for you right here ok:)

(3.) Mark (Mad Kiwi) who sent me to carl who made the brace for me, cheers guys.

It seems all back together and hanging in there, I had just 2 issues upon reassembly:

(a.) the down pipe needs to be bent in toward the centre of the car about 20mm to get it to line up with the bolts, do you think I should have carl re-align the brace so this joint isn't 'stressed' or is this part of the 'plan', to have it 'under tension'?

(b.) continuing their theme of helpfully making sure they continually force one to run around willy nilly wasting gas and time and then making certain to supply the wrong parts Repco gave me the wrong turbo gasket so I didn't bother with one it being Easter 'n' all, I just used a bit of that maniseal and then tightened down the copper nuts on top of a set of grippy washers.

I think I'll head back into Carls next week get him to take a look, he wanted to finish it up once the turbo and whatnot had finally been secured, maybe he can undo the brace and align it properly if needed.

Last thing I will say is OMFG it was making some noise (all gone now) - the exhaust tip noise is now much more apparent, which is good.

Thanks heaps everyone, fingers crossed Vaders exhaust leak fix is well on the way.

harlansmart · Post by **harlansmart** » Mon Jun 04, 2012 3:29 pm

Tanks 1-7: Fully laden touring
Tanks 8+: Mixed solo driving

Growler · Post by **Growler** » Mon Jun 04, 2012 10:41 pm

Euen wrote:Try and find some copper coated lock nuts for your manifold studs as well. These do not vibrate loose and the copper coating means they don't seize on the stud. I thought that Wurth had them but I cannot see them in their catalogue. I managed to get a few from Al's Mufflers when they were still open and a few more from "The Italian Job" behind Al's. Alternatively you could try the Bolt Shop on Archers Rd.

For the cam cover gasket, I normally get mine from BNT, haven't had a bad one yet. Just make sure you put a dab of sealant in the sharp corners. Also as mentioned earlier, make sure you get the stainless exhaust gasket. The multi-layer aluminium ones will burn out.

Edit: Had another look and found on page A05-114 of Wurth's online catalogue.

Only problem is it looks like they may only sell in packs of 100 for M8 and 50 for M10. I suppose if you could get a group buy for 4 or 5 people it may be OK.

Or just use Coppercoat paste made by Rocol. Most Engineering Supplies will sell them.
Edit: Must have missed this thread. I have just noticed the dates and it was earlier in the year!
Hope it is all sorted out now.

harlansmart · Post by **harlansmart** » Mon Jul 09, 2012 8:52 pm

Man this is a good forum, want to say thanks to all the people who have helped me...mainly for my record, vader miata is going perfect, main current issue is 225/50 foul the lower dam fittings and the junction of the bumper and fenders... they're just big all over and a tight fit - 2LOW2C always helpful and always 'on the money' took a cool looking blade to the bodywork and has halved the issues.... and his mate is doing another alignment tomorrow as the castor is out so hopefully I can come down from the skies!

Here's how it is presently... I have some shots of the interference and will load them after a better alignment so hopefully I can showcase Aaron the suspension dudes work.

Footwear: Genuine WORK Forged Monoblock 8x15" 25p w/ TOYO PROXES T1-R 225/50

Standard 14x5.5 185/60 Bridgestone vs 6.5x15 195/50 Achilles 123 semis vs 8x15 225/50 T1-R

[/quote]

Furai · Post by **Furai** » Thu Jul 12, 2012 1:55 pm

How far out is your speedo? Those wheels look nice!

Born_disturbed · Post by **Born_disturbed** » Thu Jul 12, 2012 2:07 pm

Bunnings car park constellation! you must live near me! ha

Photo shoot sometime? lol

harlansmart · Post by **harlansmart** » Fri Jul 13, 2012 4:42 pm

My iPhone GPS and Link computer show the RPM at 100kph fell from 3,327 down to 3,085 so a decent drop in revs: Speedo 100 = GPS 98

Furai wrote:How far out is your speedo? Those wheels look nice!

Lol, very astute... there's some good carparks in Albany, not for pics but gymkhana i.e. tire torture/testing, smooth and not very grippy so the speeds don't need to be high.

Born_disturbed wrote:Bunnings car park constellation! you must live near me! ha

Photo shoot sometime? lol

harlansmart · Post by **harlansmart** » Fri Jul 13, 2012 5:09 pm

W/out the grippy semis thought we'd look at the alignment, thankfully we got fully hooked up by Aaron from JP Tyres in Porana Rd who's located very handily just next door to 2LOW2C.... important was to get it done by someone decent and Aaron's a pretty handy race car driver so I trusted his recommendations.

Only thing is my wheel is no longer centered now but the car definitely has better grip and poise, especially under heavy acceleration exit of turn, really noticeable.

This is the before picture, can see why the left front had no room to the front with too much castor.

Keith Jones · Post by **Keith Jones** » Sat Jul 14, 2012 9:52 am

Hey Harlan
Am I reading that right or is it showing 1.2mm toe out on the front now?
If it is its going to be real twitchy under heavy braking .

At the most you want to go to zero toe, so you get a bit of toe out under heavy braking.

Darth Vader Miata

Miata Turbo Fuel Usage over 5,000kms

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