Number plate mounting

[Donovan]

Well my luck had to run out at some stage, have been told by an officer of the law that the sticker on my car is illegal.

Wasn't even driving the car at the time, it was parked in a customer's carpark, and he tracked me down to the office I was working. Told me that it was a $100 fine (I can live with that) and 25 demerit points (that' I can't), but said he wasn't going to do sting me (most likely cause it was parked on private land) but that I needed to get a front plate for my car. Apparently the excuse for not allowing stickers is so the bad guys can't replicate a valid license plate. Not sure how stinging me 25 demerit points is going to stop that, thought if it was of a real concern, they would clamp down on the people that make them (http://numberplatestickers.co.nz/ and can't see anything obvious on the site saying that their number plates are illegal to be used on a road going vehicle).

Anyway, enough of my little rant (and yes I was well aware of the legal requirements, just didn't realise there was demerit points on the line), I have to go out and get a number plate mounting for the front of my car. Want something that sits out of the way of the intake into the radiator, and that I can easily remove the whole thing for when it is on the track.

Have seen this on trademe (http://www.trademe.co.nz/motors/car-par ... 934325.htm) anyone got any thoughts.

[Angreal]

I didn't think there were demerit points involved and I thought the fine was actually $150. My mate got stung on his bike because it was mounted underneath and when you sat on the bike, the rear tyre covered practically all of the plate after the suspension compressed down. He didn't get any demerit points but this was about 4 years ago. He got off the fine because the ticket was for $100 but the real fine is $150 and the ticket was issued incorrectly.

I always thought demerit points were for driving badly...

[Donovan]

ditto

[chris]

That's bullsh*t.

Let's fine people for driving safely, with a small stick on plate, no need for a warning, oh shit, while we are at it... Let's give him demerits.

[Mr. Shine]

That's bullsh*t.

Let's fine people for driving safely, with a small stick on plate, no need for a warning, oh shit, while we are at it... Let's give him demerits.

Don't break the law and you won't get a fine or demerits - the penalty's meant as a deterrent, but obviously if it doesn't deter then it's punitive as well.

It's only bullshit if you actually do it in the first place, in which case you're an idiot if you complain about consequences you knew would be there

On top of that, in this case it really was a warning. The reason he didn't fine Donovan was because he was giving him a warning as if the vehicle is on private property but has access to the road - such as 'a customer's car park' - it is still considered a road as far as the law is concerned.


I'm not sure what the appeal of stick-on plates is anyway, when you've got great options like the Garage Star side mounting, or getting your own easily fabricated.

Which is, on-topic, what I would recommend

[chris]

That's bullsh*t.

Let's fine people for driving safely, with a small stick on plate, no need for a warning, oh shit, while we are at it... Let's give him demerits.

Don't break the law and you won't get a fine or demerits - the penalty's meant as a deterrent, but obviously if it doesn't deter then it's punitive as well.

It's only bullshit if you actually do it in the first place, in which case you're an idiot if you complain about consequences you knew would be there

On top of that, in this case it really was a warning. The reason he didn't fine Donovan was because he was giving him a warning as if the vehicle is on private property but has access to the road - such as 'a customer's car park' - it is still considered a road as far as the law is concerned.


I'm not sure what the appeal of stick-on plates is anyway, when you've got great options like the Garage Star side mounting, or getting your own easily fabricated.

Which is, on-topic, what I would recommend

The reason it is bullshit is because of how open the law is to interpretation.

[Mr. Shine]

The reason it is bullshit is because of how open the law is to interpretation.

What you said implied it was bullshit that someone could be driving safely but be otherwise breaking the law, and could get slapped with demerit points for doing so.

What's open to interpretation about it though? The legislation's pretty straight-forward from my reading... and in this case Donovan knew full-well it was against the law, anyway.

[chris]

The reason it is bullshit is because of how open the law is to interpretation.

What you said implied it was bullshit that someone could be driving safely but be otherwise breaking the law, and could get slapped with demerit points for doing so.

What's open to interpretation about it though? The legislation's pretty straight-forward from my reading... and in this case Donovan knew full-well it was against the law, anyway.

There have been multiple threads on this topic on this forum, and it has been said that the stick on plates are legal as long as they are the same size and reflective.

There is nothing in the LTSA that actually states (that I have found anyway) that the stick on plates are in fact illegal.

I have also read that last year the plates were legalized..

[Donovan]

On top of that, in this case it really was a warning. The reason he didn't fine Donovan was because he was giving him a warning as if the vehicle is on private property but has access to the road - such as 'a customer's car park' - it is still considered a road as far as the law is concerned.


I'm not sure what the appeal of stick-on plates is anyway, when you've got great options like the Garage Star side mounting, or getting your own easily fabricated.

Which is, on-topic, what I would recommend

So which one are you recommending, the Garage Star or getting one fabricated?

If they consider a private property with access to the road, a road, then they can come out here and here and tarseal my driveway. But I guess, if that was the case, then I would have to register my tractor, because it was on a road that wasn't a road.

And no, not complaining about getting warned, just having a winge about the dermit points (because having a sticking on the car is defiantly the same as doing 80kph in a 50k zone), and the screwed up interpretation of the law. Like I said, if it was such a problem, then why don't they target the business that make them. How can you make something legal to buy, but illegal to use.

If it is illegal to use, then the people that make them need to have a clear and present warning on their sites that they are not to be used on a road going car.

As for the reason for using them, simple, they don't interfere/restrict the flow of the air.

[chris]

On top of that, in this case it really was a warning. The reason he didn't fine Donovan was because he was giving him a warning as if the vehicle is on private property but has access to the road - such as 'a customer's car park' - it is still considered a road as far as the law is concerned.


I'm not sure what the appeal of stick-on plates is anyway, when you've got great options like the Garage Star side mounting, or getting your own easily fabricated.

Which is, on-topic, what I would recommend

So which one are you recommending, the Garage Star or getting one fabricated?

If they consider a private property with access to the road, a road, then they can come out here and here and tarseal my driveway. But I guess, if that was the case, then I would have to register my tractor, because it was on a road that wasn't a road.

And no, not complaining about getting warned, just having a winge about the dermit points (because having a sticking on the car is defiantly the same as doing 80kph in a 50k zone), and the screwed up interpretation of the law. Like I said, if it was such a problem, then why don't they target the business that make them. How can you make something legal to buy, but illegal to use.

If it is illegal to use, then the people that make them need to have a clear and present warning on their sites that they are not to be used on a road going car.

As for the reason for using them, simple, they don't interfere/restrict the flow of the air.

Garagestar are good - what I am running.

The 80kph in a 50 zone is what I was really getting at @mrshine.

It doesn't warrant demerits.

[Mr. Shine]

There have been multiple threads on this topic on this forum, and it has been said that the stick on plates are legal as long as they are the same size and reflective.

Copy and paste of a post I made on another forum about this:

Clause 33 of the Land Transport (Motor Vehicle Registration and Licensing) Regulations 2011 details the form of ordinary plates, with subclause 6 stating how front plates may be in the form of an adhesive label, found here. Clause 34 details the form of personalised plates, and is virtually a copy of clause 33.

Clause 77 of the Regulation details the infringement offence of operating an unregistered or unlicensed motor vehicle, with subclauses 1(b)(i) and 2(b)(i) being specific to what we're talking about (not displaying registration plates issued for the vehicle). Found here.

Specifically, clauses 77(1)(b)(i) 77(2)(b)(i) requires the registration plates issued for it to be displayed, so unless the vehicle was or has been issued with an adhesive label for the front registration plate then a non-issued adhesive label cannot be used.


In summary, you can have an adhesive label displayed, but unless it was actually issued by the appropriate authority in that form, it's illegal.

So which one are you recommending, the Garage Star or getting one fabricated?

Either way, I meant something in that form is what I'd recommend. Looks good.

If it is illegal to use, then the people that make them need to have a clear and present warning on their sites that they are not to be used on a road going car.

That may be their responsibility in your view, but the law says it's your responsibility to have the issued plates on your car.

As for the reason for using them, simple, they don't interfere/restrict the flow of the air.

Yup, which is why Garage Star / style is great

[Donovan]

There have been multiple threads on this topic on this forum, and it has been said that the stick on plates are legal as long as they are the same size and reflective.

Copy and paste of a post I made on another forum about this:

Clause 33 of the Land Transport (Motor Vehicle Registration and Licensing) Regulations 2011 details the form of ordinary plates, with subclause 6 stating how front plates may be in the form of an adhesive label, found here. Clause 34 details the form of personalised plates, and is virtually a copy of clause 33.

Clause 77 of the Regulation details the infringement offence of operating an unregistered or unlicensed motor vehicle, with subclauses 1(b)(i) and 2(b)(i) being specific to what we're talking about (not displaying registration plates issued for the vehicle). Found here.

Specifically, clauses 77(1)(b)(i) 77(2)(b)(i) requires the registration plates issued for it to be displayed, so unless the vehicle was or has been issued with an adhesive label for the front registration plate then a non-issued adhesive label cannot be used.


In summary, you can have an adhesive label displayed, but unless it was actually issued by the appropriate authority in that form, it's illegal.

so how do you prove/disprove that the sticker was issued by the appropriate authority?

[Mr. Shine]

so how do you prove/disprove that the sticker was issued by the appropriate authority?

New Zealand Transport Agency don't issue adhesive label 'plates' for cars. I was told they may be doing so in the near future for motorcycles, hence why the law was changed in 2011 in anticipation of that possibility.

[chris]

There have been multiple threads on this topic on this forum, and it has been said that the stick on plates are legal as long as they are the same size and reflective.

Copy and paste of a post I made on another forum about this:

Clause 33 of the Land Transport (Motor Vehicle Registration and Licensing) Regulations 2011 details the form of ordinary plates, with subclause 6 stating how front plates may be in the form of an adhesive label, found here. Clause 34 details the form of personalised plates, and is virtually a copy of clause 33.

Clause 77 of the Regulation details the infringement offence of operating an unregistered or unlicensed motor vehicle, with subclauses 1(b)(i) and 2(b)(i) being specific to what we're talking about (not displaying registration plates issued for the vehicle). Found here.

Specifically, clauses 77(1)(b)(i) 77(2)(b)(i) requires the registration plates issued for it to be displayed, so unless the vehicle was or has been issued with an adhesive label for the front registration plate then a non-issued adhesive label cannot be used.


In summary, you can have an adhesive label displayed, but unless it was actually issued by the appropriate authority in that form, it's illegal.

so how do you prove/disprove that the sticker was issued by the appropriate authority?

BINGO ;D

[Mr. Shine]

BINGO ;D

About two minutes too late - see my previous post

[chris]

BINGO ;D

About two minutes too late - see my previous post

I know. I think I will lose MORE Karma for that.

The thing with this is the fact that the law is so open to interpretation that even some officers don't know if it's legal or not.

[Mr. Shine]

I know. I think I will lose MORE Karma for that.

Lol, I won't down rate you <3

The thing with this is the fact that the law is so open to interpretation that even some officers don't know if it's legal or not.

It's really not. It says (quoted and paraphrased from the relevant Regulations in my earlier post, which has direct hyperlinks too):

A person commits an offence if the person operates a motor vehicle in contravention of section 242(1) of the Act by driving or using it on a road if the motor vehicle does not have affixed to it and displayed in the manner prescribed by these regulations the registration plates issued for it.

If the plates weren't issued for it, they're not legal to be displayed on it.

[chris]

I know. I think I will lose MORE Karma for that.

Lol, I won't down rate you <3

The thing with this is the fact that the law is so open to interpretation that even some officers don't know if it's legal or not.

It's really not. It says (quoted and paraphrased from the relevant Regulations in my earlier post, which has direct hyperlinks too):

A person commits an offence if the person operates a motor vehicle in contravention of section 242(1) of the Act by driving or using it on a road if the motor vehicle does not have affixed to it and displayed in the manner prescribed by these regulations the registration plates issued for it.

If the plates weren't issued for it, they're not legal to be displayed on it.

Gah just take all the plates off and wear a belaclava, seems easy enough.

[Mr. Shine]

Wouldn't that ruin MX-5 drivers' immaculately self-cut and self-permed hair?

I get where the confusion comes from, with clause 33 describing how they can be in the form of an adhesive label, but it's a red herring and doesn't waive the restriction that they must be the plates issued for it :S

[chris]

Wouldn't that ruin MX-5 drivers' immaculately self-cut and self-permed hair?

I get where the confusion comes from, with clause 33 describing how they can be in the form of an adhesive label, but it's a red herring and doesn't waive the restriction that they must be the plates issued for it :S

Go bald with designer glasses :3

That's the part that I had been implying was to open to interpretation!

[Mr. Shine]

That's the part that I had been implying was to open to interpretation!

Yeah, but it's ignorance at best for people to try and argue, because NZTA don't issue adhesive labels and the two clauses' requirements are not mutually exclusive.

[Stevo]

I always thought demerit points were for driving badly...

Yeah right. They even issue demerits for no rego now.

[Mr. Shine]

Yeah right. They even issue demerits for no rego now.

Yep...

http://www.nzta.govt.nz/licence/offence ... merit.html

[authentic]

Garage Star Type 1:





Real sturdy, and made of stainless so its not going to get all corroded and ugly on you. I bought it from the Garage Star site which included an adapter since I didn't have the baby teeth. Not sure if the TM one includes it.

[Snapfrozen]

Got mine laser cut, made it in CAD myself, cost all of $10...