Roll bar legality

Denz · Post by **Denz** » Tue Jun 26, 2012 3:59 am

I see a lot of roll bars that end up being bolted into the seatbelt towers and then welded or plates welded on the back tray.
Does this require a cert? I just read through the Low Volume Cert documentation and cant seem to find an answer, if it doesnt weaken the structure and meets the requirements for roll bars in general it would seem not?

Can anyone clarify or does anyone have any personal experience?
Im really hoping to A.) not get in any trouble with Johnny law and B.) Not get a cert.

To clarify I will be building one with a friend who races a lot of cars and has all the tools and experience required to do this but normally does it for motor racing applications.

Thanks

Brainflex · Post by **Brainflex** » Tue Jun 26, 2012 7:24 am

If it stays behind the seats (halfcage) no cert is necessary. If it goes in front of seats (fullcage) cert needed.

Snapfrozen · Post by **Snapfrozen** » Tue Jun 26, 2012 7:36 am

My understanding is if it goes forward of the seats you cannot lvv cert it and it becomes governed by motorsport ruling. Bolt in requires no cert if rear of seats and welded in requires cert id rear of seats.

If a roll cage could be certed then an authority card would be useless

Mr. Shine · Post by **Mr. Shine** » Tue Jun 26, 2012 10:05 am

Snapfrozen wrote:Bolt in requires no cert if rear of seats and welded in requires cert id rear of seats.

I don't believe there's any differentiation between weld-in and bolt-in for roll bars (i.e. behind the seats), but yeah behind the seats requires no certification.

Denz · Post by **Denz** » Tue Jun 26, 2012 12:27 pm

Fantastic guys! hopfully this time next week i'll have myself a new roll bar.
Thanks a lot.

Mr. Shine · Post by **Mr. Shine** » Tue Jun 26, 2012 12:58 pm

For clarity, there is no mention of any differentiation in the WoF VIRM or LVV cert thresholds between bolt-in and weld-in roll bars. Requirements are:

• each seating position is fitted with an effective head restraint, and
• the bars are positioned:
– behind, following a plane extending upward, parallel to the back of the backrest on the rear‑most seat, and
– in such a way that the head restraint would provide protection from head contact with any bar section during a crash.

Denz · Post by **Denz** » Tue Jun 26, 2012 2:54 pm

Yeah saw that but still left me wondering about the welding part of it.
I'll try and take some pictures of the build incase anyone else wants to try it out.
It'll be hard baresq but maybe with some arms at the back and its those points which im cautious about

Snapfrozen · Post by **Snapfrozen** » Tue Jun 26, 2012 6:22 pm

Sorry, misread the post on my phone, my post would apply to a rollcage/half cage, not rollbar

Ian · Post by **Ian** » Tue Jun 26, 2012 7:07 pm

Denz...I assume from your association with your mate, that you appreciate that a Motorsport Association of NZ approved roll protection is a whole different ball game and needs a different approach.
Cheers
Ian

SLYDIT · Post by **SLYDIT** » Tue Jun 26, 2012 7:12 pm

a msnz roll bar has very very specific things that must be met to comply. things like baseplate sizes, number and grade of bolts, measeurements etc.
you can view the requirements on the msnz website

Mr. Shine · Post by **Mr. Shine** » Tue Jun 26, 2012 7:19 pm

Snapfrozen wrote:Sorry, misread the post on my phone, my post would apply to a rollcage/half cage, not rollbar

According to LVVTA, a roll-bar:

"means a transverse bar, or bars, positioned behind the front seating positions, which is attached and laterally braced to the main structure of the vehicle."

Whereas a roll-cage:

"means a roll-bar with additional members extending forward past the
front seating positions to another roll-bar positioned around the top
of the windscreen area."

So there's still no differentiation between weld-in and bolt-in as far as the VIRM for WoF or certification thresholds are concerned

Timmo · Post by **Timmo** » Tue Jun 26, 2012 8:27 pm

Denz- Can you post pictures of your roll bar when it's finished? Im going to need to get one as well so there might be a second customer if the design is what i'm after

(Where in the country are you btw?)

evel · Post by **evel** » Tue Jun 26, 2012 8:57 pm

Timmo wrote:Denz- Can you post pictures of your roll bar when it's finished? Im going to need to get one as well so there might be a third customer if the design is what i'm after

I 2nd this

Denz · Post by **Denz** » Tue Jun 26, 2012 9:04 pm

Im in hamilton, im going to try and take lots of photos, its a mate thats doing it as a bit of a favour but i'll post pics up etc etc im sure there will be a lot of trial and error but i'll try and do a "what we did" rather than walk through and will be more than happy to show it off when its done.
When I figure out how to put a subwoofer in this damn thing i'll do a walkthrough aswell.
Edit
Well there seems to be a bit of interest so i'll see if we can make it a bit more bolt in and if he would want to sell any of them etc

evel · Post by **evel** » Tue Jun 26, 2012 9:13 pm

what sort of design are you gonna go for?

Denz · Post by **Denz** » Tue Jun 26, 2012 9:23 pm

Ian wrote:Denz...I assume from your association with your mate, that you appreciate that a Motorsport Association of NZ approved roll protection is a whole different ball game and needs a different approach.
Cheers
Ian

Yes at best im hoping this might get me into a funday on a track if not its for protection, chassis stiffening and looks

The style will be Harddogesq still look with maybe some extra bracing for the rear.
Edit:
Without actually taking everything off and measuring the initial ideas are as such, most likely is the bottom left or slightly closer to the center and have no pinning.

1.) Safety (has to be better than having nothing)
2.) Useability (easy to build, install, live with every day and hopfully remove)
3.) Looks (a basic hardbar doesnt do it for me aesthetically but I will work around the first two)

Edit 7million
He seems to be semi keen on the idea of making a couple extra depending how it goes

Kieran · Post by **Kieran** » Wed Jun 27, 2012 10:59 am

Denz wrote:When I figure out how to put a subwoofer in this damn thing i'll do a walkthrough aswell.

I have heard of people mounting them in the non a/c box i'm trying to find the write up

evel · Post by **evel** » Wed Jun 27, 2012 6:43 pm

just my $0.02
But really no matter what you come up with id probably be keen on one!

Bwarp · Post by **Bwarp** » Mon Jul 02, 2012 7:50 pm

not sre if srs on 6x9 boxes. It's not a boat.

Bwarp · Post by **Bwarp** » Mon Jul 02, 2012 7:52 pm

evel · Post by **evel** » Mon Jul 02, 2012 8:03 pm

but what if i want everyone to hear my dub step?

punkoutnz · Post by **punkoutnz** » Mon Jul 02, 2012 9:46 pm

They're called tower speakers. I think Fusion make some decent ones, and Kicker do too.

punkoutnz · Post by **punkoutnz** » Mon Jul 02, 2012 9:52 pm

Here's some cheap versions on trademe...

http://www.trademe.co.nz/motors/boats-m ... 010195.htm

I'll go and see if there's anything I can find at work, we sell Fusion products.

evel · Post by **evel** » Tue Jul 03, 2012 8:35 pm

was partly taking the piss, but alright

Denz · Post by **Denz** » Wed Jul 04, 2012 12:33 am

Got most of the way through it, havent done the arms yet so its just a bar.
I'll post a new thread with pics tomorrow.

Roll bar legality

Roll bar legality

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