1800 turbo questions

Greg Bourne · Post by **Greg Bourne** » Mon Feb 16, 2004 6:13 pm

Hi ya,

I am new to this discussion site, and this question has no doubt been
posed before, but.

1800 MX5 looking at getting more performance out of it. Nothing crazy I
would be happy with 40hp more. I have seen plenty of Turbo kits on the
net in Aus, USA and Japan, has anyone had any experience with them here
in NZ?

Or should I look else where for my 40hp?

I can see any easy 20hp with better exhaust, extractors and air inlet
designs.

Some help please.

Greg B

jeff · Post by **jeff** » Mon Feb 16, 2004 11:26 pm

hi Greg

Intake/Headers/Exhaust would get you about 10-15 hp
more, but with lots more torque (area under the curve
and all that) and noise to boot. I had this setup for
a while on my '96 and it sounded luverly

Cheap guy that I am, bought it all second hand for
under $1k. Then sold it all.

A supercharger setup could get you 30-70hp, depending
on how many toy$ you buy.

A turbo install can get you 30-400hp, depending on how
fruity you want it. The latter 2 options are sure to
leave you many thousands of dollars quicker, hehe.

Speed costs money, and all that...

Happy to help you out on turbo
specifics/recommendations if you're feeling financial

- others here have SC so could be of more use than
me there.

cheers,
Jeff

www.cardomain.com/id/jiffy

--- Greg Bourne <grego@ihug.co.nz> wrote:
[...]

Rex Johnston · Post by **Rex Johnston** » Tue Feb 17, 2004 10:39 am

Greg Bourne wrote:

1800 MX5 looking at getting more performance out of it. Nothing crazy
I would be happy with 40hp more. I have seen plenty of Turbo kits on
the net in Aus, USA and Japan, has anyone had any experience with them
here in NZ?

Or should I look else where for my 40hp?

I can see any easy 20hp with better exhaust, extractors and air inlet
designs.

Some help please.

Somewhere out there on the World Wide Wait is a page detailing how
someone swapped an engine
from a Mazda 323GTX into a Miata. In standard trim, that would be
almost exactly what you are after.

Cheers, Rex

redney · Post by **redney** » Tue Feb 17, 2004 4:25 pm

Worthwhile thinking about exactly what you want before forking out too much dough. Keeping a car NA has many advantages including reliability, lower running costs and no turbo lag. Forced induction is not as reliable and costly to run in any form and get approved by the authorities when retrofitted.

Nitrous oxide could give you plenty of extra power when you need it and is cheap.

R

[...]

mx5mike · Post by **mx5mike** » Tue Feb 17, 2004 4:30 pm

What kind of approval does a turbo system need? I brought mine back from
the UK and am just installing it now.

The UK warrant bods didn't care about the car as long as it was safe.

From k.jones@auckland.ac.nz Fri Apr 27 18:10:34 2007
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According to the LVVTA if the turbo gives you more that 20% extra power
you may need to get it certed.

Keith

From k.jones@auckland.ac.nz Fri Apr 27 18:10:35 2007
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Update on that. I have just read the LVVC threshold schedule and it says
that all turbo installations must be certed.
See http://www.lvvta.org.nz/ModThreshold260902.pdf

Keith

darryl · Post by **darryl** » Tue Feb 17, 2004 8:30 pm

certification is no big deal, generaly if your car passes a warrant easily
then it will get certed. Since the turbo conversion will only add power, and
is not a structural change, you will be fine, just make sure your brakes are
good as well.
Done properly, there is no reason why reliability should be comprimised. The
Mazda 323 came out with turbo and mine got thrashed 75% of its life and I
sold at 145000 (indicated) kms with very good compression.
the more money you are prepared to spend, the better it will be, as usual.

EricW · Post by **EricW** » Wed Feb 18, 2004 8:05 am

Like any other mechanical device, turbos are as good or bad as the
lubrication they receive. However, mostly running on plain bearings, and
being bloody hot, turbos get 90% of their wear in the first and last 1/2
minutes of operation where they spin up to high speed before the oil
pressure has stabilised, or they continue to spin free at high speed after
the engine, and therefore the oil pump, has stopped.

In aircraft, where turbochargers just have to be reliable, we observed the
rule of idling the engine for two minutes after starting, and two minutes
before stopping, just to ensure that the turbo was getting good oil before
putting it under load. It also allowed the turbo (and the rest of the
engine), to slow down and cool down evenly with a good supply of oil.

Even out in the hot, abrasive conditions of the Western Australian Desert,
we never had a single turbo problem, nor have I with any turbo on which I
followed that procedure.

Eric

Rex Johnston · Post by **Rex Johnston** » Wed Feb 18, 2004 8:55 am

On Wed, 2004-02-18 at 08:05, Eric & Ann West wrote:

pressure has stabilised, or they continue to spin free at high speed after
the engine, and therefore the oil pump, has stopped.

This is not quite right (the advice is, tho`). If the engine is off,
the turbo will spin down in a couple of seconds at most.

What happens is that the extremely hot core no longer has oil flowing
around it. So what, you might say. Well, it's hot enough to boil oil
held in continuous contact with it. The oil then gums up the core and
you're left with a turbo that will not spin. Moral of this story...

If you've just been fanging it around in your turbo car, let it idle for
a couple of minutes to distribute the heat from the core. If you've
just been nicely driving along the road, just turn it off.

Cheers, Rex

redney · Post by **redney** » Wed Feb 18, 2004 11:36 am

Yep - a turbo timer is a good option if you've been pushing it and don't want to wait about but get an alarm/immobilser too. You can also just reduce your speed/acceleration prior to arriving and this will cool things too.

Maintaining turbos is a big issue and you'll need to weigh up a lot of issues before installing one. You will need to change oil more often and run the thing on 96 too.

If I wanted that performance I'd buy an MX that has forced
induction already installed. Could save a lot of headaches in the long run (and save a lot of money!)

R

[...]

SLYDIT · Post by **SLYDIT** » Wed Feb 18, 2004 5:40 pm

Threres not much around for the 1800 engine cheap.
You can get HKS turbo kits(Japan and US.) and AVO kits
(Australia), but youll not get much change out of
about 5-7 grand. If your car is a series one car then
you could try something made up like this.

2nd hand turbo,($450) on a fabricated "weld el"
manifold ($600).Use an adjustable fuel pressure
regulator for fuel(U.S$250) and a bipes timing control
unit (U.S$210) pick yourself up a jap import
intercooler from a toyota supra or Mitsi evo.
heres a few links you might like to look at.
www.jgstools.com
http://frontier.net/~dbipes/acu/index.htm
www.bell engineering.net/fmu
www.flyinmiata.com
www.greddyturbofaqs.com
I hope those links work!!
ive got a whole pile of other sits that may be of
interest.
hope this helps
Glenn "SLYDIT"

darryl · Post by **darryl** » Wed Feb 18, 2004 6:27 pm

You dont need to change the oil any more than you would for any other well
maintained car if you use good oil.
You dont need to run 96. I ran my GTX on 91 for 3 years even when racing it
at the drags, and that was often and with only factory intercooler. Never
had any opinging problems. If its tuned right, has the right plugs you will
get away with 91, but even then whats a few cents a litre for 96 if you are
that concerned?
Turbo timer is a good option, but as the others said, just drive without
loading up the engine before turning it off.

EricW · Post by **EricW** » Wed Feb 18, 2004 9:31 pm

Thanks Rex,
I agree that the oil is the major coolant for the turbo, another fine reason
for adopting the "Run Up, Run Down" practice,
but I can tell you that the turbos on aircraft engines spin down for
somewhat more than a few seconds, possibly because they are used for a
different purpose than a car turbo and have way different plumbing and less
manifold resistance with the waste-gate fully open. On an aircraft they dont
"kick in" they simply run flat out continuously to maintain manifold
pressure which is normally lost with increasing altitude, most of the output
being dumped below about 5000 ft pressure altitude and the waste-gate slowly
closing to compensate above that. Of course the engine runs at a constant
speed almost all of the time.

On my old CT210 Turbo-Centurion you could hear the turbo still running for
quite a few seconds after you shut down. You probably could on things like
Beech Barons and Chieftans if you were outside Of course, on 540 odd cubic
inches, the turbo was a fairly decent sized unit. It produced ground level
power (285 hp) to about 20,000 ft and cruise power to 25 thousand. That's
about three miles higher than you would go with a normally aspirated engine.

Eric

Reuben Tarran · Post by **Reuben Tarran** » Wed Feb 18, 2004 10:48 pm

Ive designed my own turbo timer using a exhaust temp sensor (K type) and a
digital refrigeration controller capable of such temps upto 900'C. Serves
as a exhaust temp display and a temp based controller where the temp set
point is programmable (say 200'c?).

When the temp falls to a programmed point at or below setpoint then the car
will switch off. Eliminates the need for overrunning on a timer, as it runs
for exactly how long it needs to, assuming the set point is correct for the
oil used. And when tinkering on the engine where stop/starts are required
you dont have to keep pressing the 'stop' button on the timer to overide it.

There are several settings that can be adjusted on the controller if you
really wanted to but otherwise its very basic.
And the cost is not too bad either compared.
If anyones interested I can help you out with one of these if you want.

Reuben

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