How many braces recommended, bilsteins worth reconditioning?

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Grummer
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How many braces recommended, bilsteins worth reconditioning?

Post by Grummer » Sun Nov 27, 2016 8:36 pm

Im new to MX5, i recently acquired a 1999 NB Eunos RS special edition, have torsen and bilsteins, but im not entirely happy....so hope you might be able to help get this sorted.

Due to "spam rules in this site" please google and go to NZ ultra racing website, they are based in Tauranga, I saw them advertising in trademe, does anyone have experience with them??

now see they have the entire range of different braces for different areas in an MX5...

this is bewildering me, as you see, oftentimes when i read about additional braces for "racing" or enchanced handling' or "mild occassional club meetings or just to get it "Right"...

I have seen many mentions "front and below engine" (as for standard theres one top of engine correct?) , then there's in rears in boot, and under??

and along side under carriages...

is this neccessary??

can anyone explain how you know how much you need if not intended to race with superwide super sticky ultra expensive toyo or Kumho tyres...,

im just bit unhappy with the 1999 RS special edition it a bit loose and have stupid bad tyres (golden lions in the rears so shocking i plan to ditch it for bridgestones shortly before summer arrives, fronts are michelins ps3 (it holds real well there) but back end seems wanna swing past...
So
Im thinking of getting bushes for bilsteins, to make it firmer, and now i suspect id need bracing... only have it on top in front as most mx5 do.
one small brach under at the rear but its pathetic just a wee bar nothing else...

i hope anyone here could advise what is going to improve and why? and how far should i go?
also i am considering to get those bilsteins re-gassed in auckland.... or is there better ideas anyone?

its a 1999 Eunos (Roadster MX5) JDM RS special edition, though looks completely stock, so i want to improve it and make it last , now done 140,000k..

any help would be appreciated

Thanks

Junkwhale
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Post by Junkwhale » Mon Nov 28, 2016 4:57 pm

What do you plan to do with the car? Is it going to be used only on the street? Dual duty street & Motorsport events? Trailered Race car?

Personally I'd skip the bracing (very little benefit/potentially negative with the added weight) and get some good matching tires and an alignment to start with.

Also check that you're actually running at least the factory front sway bar as without it you'd definitely have issues with the 'back end swinging past'...

Junkwhale
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Post by Junkwhale » Mon Nov 28, 2016 4:58 pm

Also, if you can't see any leaks / damage / oil coming from the bilsteins they're probably fine - they're pretty durable.

Timmo
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Post by Timmo » Mon Nov 28, 2016 4:59 pm

You'd be surprised at how much difference good tyres at the correct pressures will do to your handling. Cheap tyres or tyres at too low a pressure have a lot of flex in the sidewall which feels like sloppy suspension. So, I'd recommend getting those new tyres on before splashing out on bracing.
Ex: 1991 BRG NA6, 1998 White RS, 1997 Wine Merlot M Edition

Keith Jones
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Post by Keith Jones » Mon Nov 28, 2016 5:38 pm

Your NB RS should have all the bracing you will need for a road car. There should be a cross brace underneath the gearbox and a series of ladder braces underneath the middle of the car. A cross brace in the engine compartment doesn't do very much as the suspension loads in the MX5 are taken by the subframe, not the body as in a Macpherson strutted car.
As the others have said, get some decent tyres first, and get the wheel alignment (camber/caster/toe) checked/adjusted at the same time. As you have only just got the car you don't know if it is set up properly.
If the bushes in the Bilsteins are shot, replace them. Stock rubber bushes don't cost a lot. You could get the Bilsteins dyno tested, Autolign in Mt Wellington can do this, but, as Junkwhale said, unless they are leaking, they are probably OK.

Grummer
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Post by Grummer » Mon Jan 02, 2017 11:51 am

Hi, Happy new year, thanks for replies.
I have got michellis PS3 to match the front, so now all four is the same. indeed its much better, but still not quite right. Bilsteins somehow feels soft...i did added a bigger swaybar at the rear end below ,and a 4 point cross brace below at front just below the gearbox. Front brace above the engine is there, i cant see any "ladder"
back end is behaving a lot better now, but I am suspect of the shocks in need of revalving...costs for these to be rebuild is like 1400$, then labour to put these on.wow scary.

how do i know if the bilsteins bushes are shot? am aware i can get these, and id probably will do so, very soon. $12 each.

as Keith Jones, said; "There should be a cross brace underneath the gearbox and a series of ladder braces underneath the middle of the car. A cross brace in the engine compartment doesn't do very much as the suspension loads in the MX5 are taken by the subframe, not the body as in a Macpherson strutted car."

did you mean to get this brace?? see picture. i already have this trapezium shaped brace further up front but not the main 'ladder frame' , have bigger sway bar at back, standard adjustable front brace at front above engine . i am considering another brace at back, above just behind the seat (pillar brace?)...thats about it. its so confusing...
thanks again
Grum
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Keith Jones
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Post by Keith Jones » Mon Jan 02, 2017 6:11 pm

Your car should have the braces as shown in the photo. If it hasn't someone has removed them.
Putting a bigger sway bar on the rear without similarly uprating the front bar is a big no-no. It will make the rear end feel really loose. Have you driven the car with a standard rear sway bar?
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NB1 and 2 OEM chassis braces.jpg

Grummer
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Post by Grummer » Mon Jan 02, 2017 7:50 pm

Keith Jones wrote:Your car should have the braces as shown in the photo. If it hasn't someone has removed them.
Putting a bigger sway bar on the rear without similarly uprating the front bar is a big no-no. It will make the rear end feel really loose. Have you driven the car with a standard rear sway bar?
weird, it feels bit firmer...now im confused....i have to wait till about 10 jan for the boys at garage to raise car on hoist to look for these....i do have a firmer 1 piece front brace but its a NA way too close to manifold...they sent me wrong parts...but mechanic said adjustabables with the RS is good...??

Grummer
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Post by Grummer » Mon Jan 02, 2017 8:33 pm

Grummer wrote:
Keith Jones wrote:Your car should have the braces as shown in the photo. If it hasn't someone has removed them.
Putting a bigger sway bar on the rear without similarly uprating the front bar is a big no-no. It will make the rear end feel really loose. Have you driven the car with a standard rear sway bar?
weird, it feels bit firmer...now im confused....i have to wait till about 10 jan before i could take car to garage to raise car on hoist to look for these underneath....i do have a firmer 1 piece front brace but its a NA which is way too close to manifold...they sent me wrong parts...but mechanic said adjustable with the RS is good...??
i have driven it when standard rear sway yes, the new ones did reduced the rolls.. how much quite abit or not enough i can't say due lack of experience but i have noticed its better car stayed more level. but somehow car buck and not smooth in mid corner transition.... while not perfect since shocks do feel soft....., that lack of ladder brace, there is one small bar across middle by gearbox though, but that's it apart from the new 4pt white braces under it...... finding out more as you're telling me, have me quite worried...., now to "Fix it" shall i get this big white "ladder" brace and a rear-upper which where soft roof can still go down..it right behind the seats headrests (just below it)... im at odds now, get a NB front brace to match the rear then add the ladder brace for lower mid section ?

Grummer
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Post by Grummer » Mon Jan 02, 2017 9:44 pm

Keith Jones wrote:Your car should have the braces as shown in the photo. If it hasn't someone has removed them.
Putting a bigger sway bar on the rear without similarly uprating the front bar is a big no-no. It will make the rear end feel really loose. Have you driven the car with a standard rear sway bar?
just now, i have been for a short drive to open road, swinging car sideways, indeed pretty scary the back IS LOOSE!!!. you are right. by hindsight now, I'd actually feel safer to go back to standard sway bar (still have it), not sure about the front-below trapezium piece...now the car feels all confused...

two back tyres are new, barely broken in but the swinging back forth in straight line at about 100K is quite enough to throw whole car into a sharp roll, literally it can ROLL the car....its bad....dreadful

right now I wished to discussed this before the whole ordering, installing of these sway bars..... i did looked under for those standard "ladders" as you mentioned, i couldn't see it at all.

what should I do? revert back to standard, try find some standard mid-braces...? and take car to Autoalign get the shocks sorted, (and bilsteins bushes as well).......what do you think? please reply, I really do appreciate your mx5 wisdom, i just want that car safer, smoother, and get it handling right as it should be when "new"...
Thanks once again . nervous now i would prefer if you don't mind to help out of this situation in PM... its kinda embarrassing mistakes I'm making thinking is sway bar, when it could just be the shocks.... or something else

Keith Jones
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Post by Keith Jones » Tue Jan 03, 2017 3:34 pm

PMd you.

fooesboy
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Post by fooesboy » Mon Jan 09, 2017 8:42 pm

If you are in Tauranga then I would recommend a visit out to MX5 Mart. Ross I am sure would be willing to help.

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