M45 Supercharger help please

mobymidge · Post by **mobymidge** » Fri Jan 06, 2012 8:33 pm

I have just spent the last 5 days trying to fit an Eaton M45 supercharger with a Tim Lane Fabrications mounting kit and have struggled all the way. I can't get the belt correctly alligned and SC screams all the time, it is that loud I would be concerned about starting it at 630am when I head out to work, it won't be popular with the neighbours. To top it off, the silicon plumbing keeps blowing apart when I rev the engine up.

To cut to the chase, I need help and I'm will to pay for it. I need someone to fit the SC and get the car up and running and tuned. Would prefer someone who does this professionaly but any help would be considered.

Due to work and other commitments I won't have any spare time for the next couple of months so thats the reason for wussing out.

Details are follows;

1991 MX5 NA 1.6
MX5 Parts SS Exhaust and headers
Megasquirt 1 V3 ECU
GM IAT
LC1 O2 sensor
Eaton M45 SC (from a Mini Cooper)
Tim Lane Mounting Kit (from the UK)

WideOpenThrottle · Post by **WideOpenThrottle** » Sat Jan 07, 2012 9:38 am

The screaming sounds like a belt slipping from not enough tension [usually the alternator belt] but maybe the SC belt or could be a dry SC bearing?.... can you turn the SC by hand with no belt on and feel or hear any roughness?...was the SC second hand?
Silicon hoses do blow - off [2low2c recommends spraying hair spray on them to help them stick] other wise you may have a blockage/restriction or too much boost or sticky Throttle valve?

I only have a limited Turbo knowledge but anything helps!

Good luck

zippy2 · Post by **zippy2** » Sat Jan 07, 2012 11:21 am

sorry can't offer professional help- can only give some suggestions.

sent u a PM if you want to talk in detail - however if you are out of time - sorry - perhaps a local (I assume you are in AK) can offer professional auto services to you.

I have had some similar issues in the past.

The hoses expanding and sometimes blowing off for example when I first started using dual TBs - however not on the rev up - but on lift off from a high rev - as the two TBs need to be adjusted correctly.

I also recently put on the overdrive pulley and decided to align the SC differently - what a mistake that was - belt scream was incredible. I had the SC aligned correctly it seemed, however on real close inspection it was too far forward (towards the front of the car) and while aligned with the tension rollers was pulling the belt.

2low2c · Post by **2low2c** » Sun Jan 08, 2012 8:30 pm

where abouts are you i am on the north shore i may be able to help you out

SLYDIT · Post by **SLYDIT** » Mon Jan 09, 2012 6:20 pm

do you have a bypass valve fitted like the normal m45 mx5 kits do?

mobymidge · Post by **mobymidge** » Mon Jan 09, 2012 7:15 pm

Thanks for the advice everyone, here is some additional information.

The SC was bought second hand off Trade Me. Seller (bmwe39, he sells quite a lot of M45 SC, he currently has one listed) claimed that it had done less than 100Km before being swapped out. I have checked and there is oil at both ends. When the SC is hand cranked it feels very smooth but does make a slight rubbing type noise, I presumed this was the teflon coating on the blades.

The SC kit has a bypass valve, this is bolted to the outlet manifold and is fed from the inlet manifold before the second throttle body. Before taking the whole thing off I tried running the engine and manually opening the bypass valve, this stopped the screaming (in hindsight I maybe should have offered up that piece of info in the original post).

I have just bought new band type clamps to try and stop the plumbing from blowing apart. Will try attaching it all up again one evening this week if I get chance.

I'm in Birkenhead if anyone is able to help.

WideOpenThrottle · Post by **WideOpenThrottle** » Mon Jan 09, 2012 7:25 pm

Sounds like something is blocking the intake tubes between the SC & the throttle or an incorrect installation of the intake system?

zippy2 · Post by **zippy2** » Mon Jan 09, 2012 8:50 pm

mobymidge wrote:Thanks for the advice everyone, here is some additional information.

The SC kit has a bypass valve, this is bolted to the outlet manifold and is fed from the inlet manifold before the second throttle body. Before taking the whole thing off I tried running the engine and manually opening the bypass valve, this stopped the screaming (in hindsight I maybe should have offered up that piece of info in the original post).
.

interesting - the JR bypass works by diverting the inlet air (after the first TB) around the SC - ie it actually allows the air to go straight into the Sc outlet manifold. This bypass butterfly is operated by a vacuum value.

The valve must see vacuum so its vacuum line is connected on the inlet manifold side of the second TB. where your brake boost, fuel regulator - vacuum gauge would normally be also located (on the inlet manifold).

So a question would be - do you have this connected to the wrong side of the inlet track ? is the bypass open when the car is idling ? it should be.

mobymidge · Post by **mobymidge** » Wed Jan 11, 2012 6:57 pm

I have taken some photo's of the SC with all the ancillary bits connected. Have also taken some additional photo's of the bypass valve.
The valve appears to see vacuum after the second TB. I'm going to try putting the SC back on without the inlet and outlet connected, i guess this will rule out an issue with the actual SC.

If more photo's are needed then please let me know.

mobymidge · Post by **mobymidge** » Wed Jan 11, 2012 7:03 pm

Also meant to say, the bypass valve is very slightly open when at idle.

zippy2 · Post by **zippy2** » Wed Jan 11, 2012 7:28 pm

mobymidge wrote:Also meant to say, the bypass valve is very slightly open when at idle.

well that could be the issue. it sounds like you have the vacuum for the bypass not working - it should be in full bypass at idle.

zippy2 · Post by **zippy2** » Wed Jan 11, 2012 7:37 pm

first time I have seen one of these and it is interesting that the TB on the SC is upside down (not that it should be an issue)

mobymidge · Post by **mobymidge** » Wed Jan 11, 2012 7:44 pm

I wonder if I'm loosing vacuum and therefore not opening the bypass valve.

The second TB is actually mounted on its side, the cable operates from the top.

zippy2 · Post by **zippy2** » Wed Jan 11, 2012 8:24 pm

mobymidge wrote:I wonder if I'm loosing vacuum and therefore not opening the bypass valve.

The second TB is actually mounted on its side, the cable operates from the top.

where are you attaching the vacuum line on the inlet manifold ?

if you start the car and remove it does the idle change - or car stall?

do you have a vacuum / boost gauge you can connect to this point on the inlet manifold.

if you are getting vacuum, is it the bypass valve that is not working - leaking or bent / binding

Edit - added comments below
Just so we are on the same page.

I call the TB on the super charger TB1 and the one on the motor inlet manifold TB2. When the car is idling there is vacuum in the inlet manifold as the motor is sucking against the closed TB2 butterfly. There will be some – but not lots on the other side of the TB2 butterfly –including the SC and its manifold and even less on the other side(air intake / filter side) of TB1 as it also has a closed butterfly.

So the vacuum line that connects to the SC bypass value must connect on the motor (motor inlet manifold) side of what I call TB2 as that is where the vacuum is (unless TB2 is open and even then if you are in cruse (part throttle) it will see some vacuum and open the bypass.

mobymidge · Post by **mobymidge** » Fri Jan 13, 2012 8:57 pm

Connected the vacuum line up to the bypass valve and tried it at idle. Exactly as zippy2 said, the valve fully opened so it is clear that I had the bypass valve connected up incorrectly.

Will try and reasemble it all tomorrow and see if the scream has gone.

mobymidge · Post by **mobymidge** » Fri Feb 10, 2012 8:06 pm

Well time for an update.

SC is fitted and the car is running. I'm getting the ocassional scream but this is I think down to the dual TB's not being set up correctly. The reading I have done so far on dual TB's seem to all use an eliptical cam so that the TB before the SC opens more.

Is it possible to set up dual TB's without the eliptical cam?

Also, are there any good sites that explain step by step how to set up dual TB's? I would like to understand how to set up the idle screws and butterfly valves.

zippy2 · Post by **zippy2** » Mon Feb 13, 2012 9:32 am

mobymidge wrote:Well time for an update.

SC is fitted and the car is running. I'm getting the ocassional scream but this is I think down to the dual TB's not being set up correctly. The reading I have done so far on dual TB's seem to all use an eliptical cam so that the TB before the SC opens more.

Is it possible to set up dual TB's without the eliptical cam?

Also, are there any good sites that explain step by step how to set up dual TB's? I would like to understand how to set up the idle screws and butterfly valves.

I used this as a guide
http://forum.miata.net/vb/showthread.ph ... tle&page=2

M45 Supercharger help please

M45 Supercharger help please

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