A further comment on speed

[EricW]

Some years back, when I was a cop, we used to have to get our speedometers
checked each three months, so that we knew our speed checks "in pursuit" were
accurate. The speedo then got a certificate and we had to adjust the alleged
speed by the discrepancy shown on the certificate, which we then had to
produce in court, (along with the one each side of it, so the court could see
they were consistent)

Even our Smiths "Chronometric" speedos on the motorbikes could be up to 10%
out (more than that and they got fixed). Holden speedos were frequently worse
than that.
Any speedo on any car had to read not more than 10% out to get a WOF

Now, when I went to school, 10% of 100 Kmh was 10 Kmh. so it is reasonable to
suggest that an "accurate" speedometer could read 100 when the speed was
actually 110, that is now 5 km/h into "ticket territory" and you would not
even know.

But of course, this has nothing to do with revenue, it's all about safety. I
feel a "Tui" hoarding coming on!

On second thoughts, maybe I'll buy a radar detector!

Eric

[poison]

I've had radar detectors for years, and feel naked without one. Mind you I
tend to only use it in my work car and not the MX. I'm a lot slower on the
road than I once was but would like to keep it for those times when I'm
driving and not watching my speed so closely and drift up to 60+Km. I have it
for the prevention of demerits and not fines. For example on the Shore there
are a couple of long downhill that you can hit 65k if you don't brake, I
followed a car a few weeks ago and he was braking and got stopped, I'm sure he
was only doing 55Km but who knows. Anyway my radar has paid for itself in this
situation many times.

I have the Uniden GPS, good for general use. Best benefit is the GPS allows it
to remember false alarm areas which is a real plus and has a fixed camera
database. But is crap for mobile speed cameras. If I had too much $$ I would
get the Valentine, on a budget I would get the Uniden GPS model, about $300 on
TradeMe but make damn sure it comes with an original receipt. About 10 yrs ago
I went to look at a radar for sale form the paper, when I got there the guy
had a whole range, he was a piece of sh@t thief so I made excuses and called
the cops. But of course they did not care.


Gazza
"PO1SON"

[poison]

I've had radar detectors for years, and feel naked without one. Mind you I
tend to only use it in my work car and not the MX. I'm a lot slower on the
road than I once was but would like to keep it for those times when I'm
driving and not watching my speed so closely and drift up to 60+Km. I have it
for the prevention of demerits and not fines. For example on the Shore there
are a couple of long downhill that you can hit 65k if you don't brake, I
followed a car a few weeks ago and he was braking and got stopped, I'm sure he
was only doing 55Km but who knows. Anyway my radar has paid for itself in this
situation many times.

I have the Uniden GPS, good for general use. Best benefit is the GPS allows it
to remember false alarm areas which is a real plus and has a fixed camera
database. But is crap for mobile speed cameras. If I had too much $$ I would
get the Valentine, on a budget I would get the Uniden GPS model, about $300 on
TradeMe but make damn sure it comes with an original receipt. About 10 yrs ago
I went to look at a radar for sale form the paper, when I got there the guy
had a whole range, he was a piece of sh@t thief so I made excuses and called
the cops. But of course they did not care.


Gazza
"PO1SON"

[Jon Addison]

It would be interesting to check at your nearest dyno shop how often
they find speedos under-reading in a car on standard-sized tyres. I
remember two E-types in quick succession over the dyno a few years
back. Both read 138mph when they were doing 100mph - the cheapest way
for a manufacturer to achieve performance! Motoring mags also confirm
the majority of speedos over-read, if not quite to E-type extent.
Jon
On 11/08/2005, at 10:14 PM, Eric & Ann West wrote:

[...]

[Jon Addison]

It would be interesting to check at your nearest dyno shop how often
they find speedos under-reading in a car on standard-sized tyres. I
remember two E-types in quick succession over the dyno a few years
back. Both read 138mph when they were doing 100mph - the cheapest way
for a manufacturer to achieve performance! Motoring mags also confirm
the majority of speedos over-read, if not quite to E-type extent.
Jon
On 11/08/2005, at 10:14 PM, Eric & Ann West wrote:

[...]

[Martin Harms]

Eric,

thanks for that comment on Speedo inaccuracies.

That's the reason the tolerance level on speeding tickets in Germany is
10% of the posted speed limit. As in 10km/h at 100km/h limit, giving you
110km/h, 5km/h at 50km/h limit giving you 55km/h, 6km at 60km/h limit
giving you 66km/h etc.
Also, for that (among other) reasons you are not allowed to change the
tyre size on your car from the type certificate without engineering
reports/special permit. Makes a lot more sense to me than the strange NZ
"tolerance level".

Also the price of those tickets there is a lot lower than here. It is
common knowledge there that accidents (especially fatal ones) are caused
by other factors than speeding per se. Like tail-gating, not giving way,
going through stop signs, red traffic lights, driving on the wrong side
of the road (for all of which you WILL loose your licence for a certain
number of weeks/months. And not indicating, of course is an instant fine
offence as well. (As an explanation for the Aucklanders amongst us:
indicating is when you - ah, never mind, it's a strange foreign ritual
they do in other places.)

All of which (together with compulsory driving lessons and theoretical
instruction about things like inertia, reaction times, wet roads and
their influence on the possible outcome of DRIVING TOO CLOSE TO THE CAR
IN FRONT) result in a road fatality rate that is less than half per head
o population than in NZ. Despite having no speed limit on most of the
motorways. In fact, they teach you that it is "hitting solid objects at
great speed that can kill you" instead of the NZ version that "Speed
kills" or "Speed kills kids" which are misleading at best.

So, my recommendation for decreasing the road "toll" in NZ would be
to:... - ah, never mind, -... I've been told to: "Go home if you don't
like it here in NZ" often enough in the last 23 years. I'm still here!
And I shall become a silent "lurker" in this forum again. There is some
interesting information now and then + some help I've received. Thank
you all for that.

Martin

Eric & Ann West wrote:

[...]

[Martin Harms]

Eric,

thanks for that comment on Speedo inaccuracies.

That's the reason the tolerance level on speeding tickets in Germany is
10% of the posted speed limit. As in 10km/h at 100km/h limit, giving you
110km/h, 5km/h at 50km/h limit giving you 55km/h, 6km at 60km/h limit
giving you 66km/h etc.
Also, for that (among other) reasons you are not allowed to change the
tyre size on your car from the type certificate without engineering
reports/special permit. Makes a lot more sense to me than the strange NZ
"tolerance level".

Also the price of those tickets there is a lot lower than here. It is
common knowledge there that accidents (especially fatal ones) are caused
by other factors than speeding per se. Like tail-gating, not giving way,
going through stop signs, red traffic lights, driving on the wrong side
of the road (for all of which you WILL loose your licence for a certain
number of weeks/months. And not indicating, of course is an instant fine
offence as well. (As an explanation for the Aucklanders amongst us:
indicating is when you - ah, never mind, it's a strange foreign ritual
they do in other places.)

All of which (together with compulsory driving lessons and theoretical
instruction about things like inertia, reaction times, wet roads and
their influence on the possible outcome of DRIVING TOO CLOSE TO THE CAR
IN FRONT) result in a road fatality rate that is less than half per head
o population than in NZ. Despite having no speed limit on most of the
motorways. In fact, they teach you that it is "hitting solid objects at
great speed that can kill you" instead of the NZ version that "Speed
kills" or "Speed kills kids" which are misleading at best.

So, my recommendation for decreasing the road "toll" in NZ would be
to:... - ah, never mind, -... I've been told to: "Go home if you don't
like it here in NZ" often enough in the last 23 years. I'm still here!
And I shall become a silent "lurker" in this forum again. There is some
interesting information now and then + some help I've received. Thank
you all for that.

Martin

Eric & Ann West wrote:

[...]

[bert wouda]

Martin

I totally agree with your comment , ... I have driven many KM 's in Germany
and the rest of Europe ( I felt more saver, then on the roads in NZ )
...

I had several discussions with traffic cops the last few months , ...and
my impression is (correct me , if I'm wrong ) that they put too much
emphasis on speeding ( mssg comes from Min of Transport ???... collecting
$$$$ ) ... rather checking on indicators , to close, and driving
behaviour in general .

BERT

********

[bert wouda]

Martin

I totally agree with your comment , ... I have driven many KM 's in Germany
and the rest of Europe ( I felt more saver, then on the roads in NZ )
...

I had several discussions with traffic cops the last few months , ...and
my impression is (correct me , if I'm wrong ) that they put too much
emphasis on speeding ( mssg comes from Min of Transport ???... collecting
$$$$ ) ... rather checking on indicators , to close, and driving
behaviour in general .

BERT

********

[Grant]

They sure do. Why else would they park obscured at the bottom of a hill just
at the transition from 100k to 50k areas. If it was for safety then surely
they would be better to park where they can be seen? Silly thought!

Grant in sunny Blenheim.

From chris.tankard@aderant.com Fri Apr 27 17:34:57 2007
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From: "Chris Tankard" <chris.tankard@aderant.com>
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I don't know why you are complaining - 100k is far too fast anyway.

From today's news:

Call for speed limits to be lowered
12 August 2005

Open-road and urban speed limits should be lowered, the Local Authority
Traffic Institute of New Zealand (TRAFINZ) said today.


President Andy Foster said the 100kmh speed limit was too fast for most
of New Zealand's roads - including sections of State Highway One - and
should be lowered on sub-standard roads until safety barriers could be
installed.

He admitted the lowering of speed limits to 80kmh would be unpopular in
large sections of the community - and among many politicians.

However, he said the suggestion of a wire barrier along large undivided
sections of State Highway One "would also be unpopular".

Mr Foster, a Wellington city councillor, said the 50kmh urban speed
limit was "far too fast" in residential streets.

At the annual conference held this week, TRAFINZ strongly supported
plans to introduce a blanket 40kmh speed limit.

The aims were similar to the philosophy adopted in the United Kingdom
and European countries where there was commitment from politicians and
the general community, to the elimination of death and injury on the
roads, he said.

The conference agreed there should be renewed commitment to meet the
Road Safety Strategy 2010 target of no more than 300 deaths and 4500
hospitalisations a year by 2010.

TRAFINZ also says the minimum driving age of 15 is too low.

"The decline in our road toll has stopped, after big improvements since
the 1980s ," Mr Foster said.

"The 100kmh limit is fine on many of our roads, but only until you or
somebody else makes a mistake.

"You can be the best driver in the world, but it is not much protection
when somebody coming the other way gets it wrong and there's only a bit
of paint separating you."

Road crashes remained the number-one cause of involuntary death in the
first five decades of life.

"The need to lower the open-road speed limit is really something that
will only be possible if the whole New Zealand community agree to take
responsibility for the fact that New Zealand's road toll is
devastatingly hig h."

Building more overtaking lanes would be a solution for drivers
visualising the nightmare of being stuck behind a truck or caravan for
mile after mile.

"What people may not realise is that the annual cost of death and injury
on our roads is about $3.6 billion.

"That is more than the cost of congestion, which seems to get all the
focus," Mr Foster said

[Grant]

They sure do. Why else would they park obscured at the bottom of a hill just
at the transition from 100k to 50k areas. If it was for safety then surely
they would be better to park where they can be seen? Silly thought!

Grant in sunny Blenheim.

From chris.tankard@aderant.com Fri Apr 27 17:34:57 2007
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MIME-Version: 1.0
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Subject: RE: A further comment on speed
Date: Fri, 12 Aug 2005 16:28:30 +1200
Thread-Topic: A further comment on speed
Thread-Index: AcWe82cmUysDb7UFT5O8996dHjQ0BgAAoUTA
From: "Chris Tankard" <chris.tankard@aderant.com>
To: "MX5List" <mx5list@mx5club.org.nz>
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I don't know why you are complaining - 100k is far too fast anyway.

From today's news:

Call for speed limits to be lowered
12 August 2005

Open-road and urban speed limits should be lowered, the Local Authority
Traffic Institute of New Zealand (TRAFINZ) said today.


President Andy Foster said the 100kmh speed limit was too fast for most
of New Zealand's roads - including sections of State Highway One - and
should be lowered on sub-standard roads until safety barriers could be
installed.

He admitted the lowering of speed limits to 80kmh would be unpopular in
large sections of the community - and among many politicians.

However, he said the suggestion of a wire barrier along large undivided
sections of State Highway One "would also be unpopular".

Mr Foster, a Wellington city councillor, said the 50kmh urban speed
limit was "far too fast" in residential streets.

At the annual conference held this week, TRAFINZ strongly supported
plans to introduce a blanket 40kmh speed limit.

The aims were similar to the philosophy adopted in the United Kingdom
and European countries where there was commitment from politicians and
the general community, to the elimination of death and injury on the
roads, he said.

The conference agreed there should be renewed commitment to meet the
Road Safety Strategy 2010 target of no more than 300 deaths and 4500
hospitalisations a year by 2010.

TRAFINZ also says the minimum driving age of 15 is too low.

"The decline in our road toll has stopped, after big improvements since
the 1980s ," Mr Foster said.

"The 100kmh limit is fine on many of our roads, but only until you or
somebody else makes a mistake.

"You can be the best driver in the world, but it is not much protection
when somebody coming the other way gets it wrong and there's only a bit
of paint separating you."

Road crashes remained the number-one cause of involuntary death in the
first five decades of life.

"The need to lower the open-road speed limit is really something that
will only be possible if the whole New Zealand community agree to take
responsibility for the fact that New Zealand's road toll is
devastatingly hig h."

Building more overtaking lanes would be a solution for drivers
visualising the nightmare of being stuck behind a truck or caravan for
mile after mile.

"What people may not realise is that the annual cost of death and injury
on our roads is about $3.6 billion.

"That is more than the cost of congestion, which seems to get all the
focus," Mr Foster said

[Bill Rehm]

Of course all of this speed related discussion is, as it has been many
times in the past, irrelevant and nothing more than intellectual
masturbation --- most certainly if the Green Party has its way.

As was pointed out to Jeanette Fitzsimons by another political leader in
last night's political debate, "if it is left up to your party we all
will be riding bicycles"!

Regards
William

[Bill Rehm]

Of course all of this speed related discussion is, as it has been many
times in the past, irrelevant and nothing more than intellectual
masturbation --- most certainly if the Green Party has its way.

As was pointed out to Jeanette Fitzsimons by another political leader in
last night's political debate, "if it is left up to your party we all
will be riding bicycles"!

Regards
William

[bert wouda]

Open-road and urban speed limits should be lowered, the Local Authority
Traffic Institute of New Zealand (TRAFINZ) said today.

I don't know why you are complaining - 100k is far too fast anyway.


*****
Then we can better sell our MX 5's and buy a MX push bike ...but even
that is bl...dangerous,... no cycle lanes ...!!!

but first take first all the * Kindergarten kids of the road (*
read 15 -18 year kids ) <<< and teach them proper driving and other
skills . (no uncle Harry's with the family car )

Ask Mr Foster what happens with all the "Trillions " of dollars " they
" have collected over the years ( road tax , petrol tax and whatever
tax ) ... it took how many years and many deads to "fix " a piece of
road Centennial Highway 1 between Pukerua bay and Paekakariki !!!

B.

P.S
is there still time to start a new party !!!

****************

From tonebeats@yahoo.co.nz Fri Apr 27 17:34:55 2007
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;
Date: Sat, 13 Aug 2005 13:43:05 +1200 (NZST)
From: Tony Spellacey <tonebeats@yahoo.co.nz>
Subject: RE: A further comment on speed
To: MX5List <mx5list@mx5club.org.nz>
In-Reply-To: <00e201c59f00$3ff0f6e0$214b65da@PC446628134234>
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All i can say to that is BRILLENT.
--- Bill Rehm <bill@kase.co.nz> wrote:

[...]

[bert wouda]

Open-road and urban speed limits should be lowered, the Local Authority
Traffic Institute of New Zealand (TRAFINZ) said today.

I don't know why you are complaining - 100k is far too fast anyway.


*****
Then we can better sell our MX 5's and buy a MX push bike ...but even
that is bl...dangerous,... no cycle lanes ...!!!

but first take first all the * Kindergarten kids of the road (*
read 15 -18 year kids ) <<< and teach them proper driving and other
skills . (no uncle Harry's with the family car )

Ask Mr Foster what happens with all the "Trillions " of dollars " they
" have collected over the years ( road tax , petrol tax and whatever
tax ) ... it took how many years and many deads to "fix " a piece of
road Centennial Highway 1 between Pukerua bay and Paekakariki !!!

B.

P.S
is there still time to start a new party !!!

****************

From tonebeats@yahoo.co.nz Fri Apr 27 17:34:55 2007
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;
Date: Sat, 13 Aug 2005 13:43:05 +1200 (NZST)
From: Tony Spellacey <tonebeats@yahoo.co.nz>
Subject: RE: A further comment on speed
To: MX5List <mx5list@mx5club.org.nz>
In-Reply-To: <00e201c59f00$3ff0f6e0$214b65da@PC446628134234>
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All i can say to that is BRILLENT.
--- Bill Rehm <bill@kase.co.nz> wrote:

[...]