Another noisy tappet

EricW · Post by **EricW** » Tue Nov 25, 2003 7:27 am

Just when we thought we had cleared this up, TAPPET 2!

Started the car this morning to hear what sounds like a very noisy tappet,
which did not go away as the car warmed up. Thought about the oil change
scenario, but the oil and filter were only done just over 3000 km ago. The car
has sat for a few days, but I would have expected any noise to go as the oil
temperature and pressure came up,

The noise is coming from inside the camshaft cover, so I am quite confident
that that is what it is.

The car is a 94/1.8

Any thoughts anyone?

Eric

lou Girardin · Post by **lou Girardin** » Tue Nov 25, 2003 8:03 am

What oil and filter are you using?
Lou

Chic & Morven · Post by **Chic & Morven** » Tue Nov 25, 2003 8:36 am

Have you checked the oil level? Not enough oil is worse than old oil when
it comes to lifter noise.

--

Chic & Morven, us@lynchz.com on 25/11/2003

On Tue, 25 Nov 2003 07:27:09 +1300, Eric & Ann West wrote:

Just when we thought we had cleared this up, TAPPET 2!

Started the car this morning to hear what sounds like a very noisy
tappet, which did not go away as the car warmed up. Thought about the oil
change scenario, but the oil and filter were only done just over 3000 km
ago. The car has sat for a few days, but I would have expected any noise
to go as the oil temperature and pressure came up,

The noise is coming from inside the camshaft cover, so I am quite
confident that that is what it is.

The car is a 94/1.8

Any thoughts anyone?

Eric

Eric West · Post by **Eric West** » Tue Nov 25, 2003 9:44 am

Thanks for that people, not sure what the oil is, it was changed by the
previous owner the day we bought the car. Do you have a recommendation as I
am quite willing to change the oil to ensure it is correct. There is plenty
of oil in the car and pressure is good.

Shane Petterd · Post by **Shane Petterd** » Tue Nov 25, 2003 10:15 am

Hi Eric.

Noisy hydraulic lifters are often caused by dirt or oil varnish deposits
forming inside the lifter. I would recommend a couple of quick oil changes,
the initial change perhaps with a higher detergent oil which you run for a
couple of days.

Hope this helps.

Cheers - Shane
shane@airnational.co.nz

Kjellberg, Adrian · Post by **Kjellberg, Adrian** » Tue Nov 25, 2003 10:21 am

In this situation, is it worth dropping the sump and cleaning it up along
with the oil pickup ?

Adrian

Eric West · Post by **Eric West** » Tue Nov 25, 2003 10:42 am

Thanks, I'll try that, the oil looks fine, but the lube sticker does not say
what it is. Before doing this change however, I guess that there are no
other possible major mechanical problems which we should also check, or is
it almost certainly oil related?

nmr · Post by **nmr** » Tue Nov 25, 2003 10:50 am

Thanks for that people, not sure what the oil is, it was changed
by the previous owner the day we bought the car. Do you have a

Hmmm. A bit of a giveaway?

Shane Petterd · Post by **Shane Petterd** » Tue Nov 25, 2003 1:32 pm

Hi Eric.

Hydraulic Lifters compensate for changes occurring within the valve train
whilst the engine is running and are basically a plunger and check valve
which is preloaded and operates using oil pressure. From my experience if
an oil change fixes the noise then lifters will definitely be at fault.
Unfortunately if the fault reoccurs after an oil change and before the next
service period then the lifter may be worn or damaged.

If the bore and or piston of the lifter or the check valve are worn or
scored then whilst the oil is "new and thick" the lifter will operate,
however when the oil breaks down with use ("old and thin") the lifter
becomes noisy again. I'm not sure about the MX-5 but some engines I have
worked on allow a lifter to be changed thru the sump or a side plate on the
engine.

Often people simply adjust their oil change interval to suit the noise.

Other mechanical noises can be diagnosed with a stethoscope but a quick oil
change is a cheap and effective way to discount the lifters.

Hope this helps.

Regards - Shane
shane@airnational.co.nz

Wayne · Post by **Wayne** » Tue Nov 25, 2003 1:43 pm

Greetings.

I'm a novice to this list so bear with me. I believe the tappets in MX-5's
are similar/same as telstars, 323's, lasers etc. My daughter had a high
mileage (240km) Telstar that rattled worse than any diesel, tried oil
changes, tried some valve train cleaners, but the one that is magic is CRC
Valve-Kleen (engine valve and lifter cleaner) just add and forget. Under
$10.00 from Repco or the likes. Alot of car sales put a bottle in every car
in their yard. Also I would recommend more regular oil and filter changes -
maybe 5000km instead of 10000km. Oils cheep and I don't see the need to run
full synthetic oils I use Shell Helix Plus 10w-40 in my 1800. I value other
opinions.

Cheers Wayne

Eric West · Post by **Eric West** » Tue Nov 25, 2003 2:36 pm

No not really, I noticed it was due for a change and it was one of the
things the owner agreed to do as we negotiated, along with the new WOF.

The car has only 63,000 km on it, with a sufficient paper trail to convince
me that is genuine, even if it's immaculate condition did not. So I doubt
anyone was hiding anything, it's hardly run in. The oil change was done by a
BP station in Remuera, I just dont know what they used, I assume it was
appropriate.

The car was used as a shopping basket in it's prior life and probably never
got over 3000 rpm, so maybe it is a bit gummy, I might try Wayne's
suggestion before I change the oil, and report back my findings. But I'm
going to change the oil to a good synthetic anyway, do I need to do anything
about the undrainable mineral oil in the engine as I make this change?) What
do we recommend as a filter?

Thanks for the input so far

Eric

lou Girardin · Post by **lou Girardin** » Tue Nov 25, 2003 2:38 pm

I use Mobil Racing 4T 15/50 synthetic. Try any 15/50 synthetic or semi -
synthetic. Make sure you use a genuine Mazda oil filter too. You may get the
occasional tap on start up after 4 - 5,000 km on these oils though.
Lou

Craig Watson · Post by **Craig Watson** » Tue Nov 25, 2003 3:12 pm

I thought Mobil Racing 4T was a 4 stroke motorcycle oil only. And you
should never use a motorcyle oil in a passenger vehicle as it has a
different chemical make up because both engines have different
characteristics.

Craig Watson · Post by **Craig Watson** » Tue Nov 25, 2003 3:15 pm

Further to that...here is a quote from the Mobil web site...

The Synthetic Alternative
Fully synthetic Mobil 1 Motorcycle Oils are specifically engineered for
use in motorcycles. The formulations are based on the proven technology
used in other Mobil 1 automotive products, yet they are optimized for the
unique requirements of a motorcycle engine and/or transmission. You can
use them with confidence, knowing they will protect your bike in extreme
situations where conventional motor oils simply can not stand up,
including extended high speed operation and prolonged idling in summertime
traffic. Mobil 1 Motorcycle Oils are available in three unique
formulations, offering synthetic motor oil options for sport bikes,
V-twins, and high-performance, 2-stroke dirt bikes.

From Michael_VanZoggel@bcait.com.au Fri Apr 27 16:46:51 2007
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Subject: RE: Unclassified RE: Another noisy tappet
Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2003 13:25:30 +1100
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Me too! Always use Ryco filters (with anti drain thingee) - why would I use
OEM?

Shane Petterd · Post by **Shane Petterd** » Tue Nov 25, 2003 3:48 pm

Hi Eric.

CRC Valve-Kleen does free sticking hydraulic lifters, it also dissolves
sludge, gums and varnish. It does this to rings, pistons and seals as well.
Be aware that any high detergent products like this can also loosen those
deposits that you don't want loosened.

A friend with an older car once used a product similar to this and ended up
with a very smoky engine.

Cheers - Shane
shane@airnational.co.nz

lou Girardin · Post by **lou Girardin** » Tue Nov 25, 2003 4:10 pm

I checked with the Mobil techs, they said it was fine. Racing 4T has greater
anti - wear additives than passenger car oils. Nothing in a car engine is as
tough on oil than a m/cycle engine/gearbox, except for a Mini (real one, not
BMW)
Lou

MC · Post by MC » Tue Nov 25, 2003 4:45 pm

Hi All
sometimes theres a reason why some filters are cheaper, the don't always have
the same amount of filter paper inside, the relief valve has a different
pressure and the oil drains out because the MX5 one lays on its side, how much
an engine rebuild to the cost of the correct filter, my turbo 5 runs on shell
synthetic with no problems in 5yrs, i read somwhere that the smaller size 323
filter is the same as the MX5 inside and half the cost, we all know that Mazda
are ripping us off but i for one do not want to rebuild my engine because of a
non-OEM filter, i'm not saying the others are no good, i've learnt my lesson
years ago when a cheap filter internals collapsed and somehow stopped the oil
flow, well thats what the mechanic told me, now i only buy OEM
just my 2c worth
MC

jeff · Post by **jeff** » Tue Nov 25, 2003 7:12 pm

The Amsoil oils are said to have decent amounts of anti-wear zinc additives that the newer (SJ/SL ? certified ) oils don't - due to emission/catalyst issues.

FWIW - the synthetic Amsoil gallon oil pack is about the same price as Mobil1 ... ~$70.

cheers-
Jeff

lou Girardin <lou@mongoose.co.nz> wrote:
I checked with the Mobil techs, they said it was fine. Racing 4T has greater anti - wear additives than passenger car oils. Nothing in a car engine is as tough on oil than a m/cycle engine/gearbox, except for a Mini (real one, not BMW)
Lou

lou Girardin · Post by **lou Girardin** » Wed Nov 26, 2003 7:59 am

I've used Amsoil, but the quality equivalent to 4T or Mobil 1 is their Series
2000 oil, over $100 for 3.9l, too dear for me.
Lou

EricW · Post by **EricW** » Wed Nov 26, 2003 8:30 am

Well, I tried Wayne's solution with the Valve Lifter Cleaner, complete
success! So I think the poor old car probably needs to be worked a bit harder.
(At least, that's what I told the Wife)

I will let the additive do it's bit for a couple of days and change the oil on
the weekend.

Thanks Guys

Eric

lou Girardin · Post by **lou Girardin** » Wed Nov 26, 2003 9:07 am

That's leaving yourself wide open Eric. Did she mention anything else that
needs to be worked harder?
Lou

jeff · Post by **jeff** » Wed Nov 26, 2003 12:33 pm

"italian tuneup" - there! Someone had to say it

Eric & Ann West <ericwest@internet.co.nz> wrote:
Well, I tried Wayne's solution with the Valve Lifter Cleaner, complete success! So I think the poor old car probably needs to be worked a bit harder. (At least, that's what I told the Wife)

I will let the additive do it's bit for a couple of days and change the oil on the weekend.

Thanks Guys

Eric

Eric West · Post by **Eric West** » Wed Nov 26, 2003 1:29 pm

You're right, but it works. I drive about 60,000 km a year in a Mitsubishi
Diamante, mostly around Auckland traffic. I also go to visit my brother in
Pahiatua a couple of times a year. I get about as far as Waiouru, from
Whangaparaoa, on a tankful going, but by the time the car has been blown out
through the Wairarapa, I get all the way back, with gas to spare and it is a
different car altogether.

Eric

Post by **zorruno** » Wed Nov 26, 2003 6:41 pm

I think you will have found that doing step 2 without step 1 would have
worked just as well and saved you $10 (or whatever Valve Lifter Cleaner is
worth). I'd put money on the fact that the previous owner didn't actually
change the oil like they said...

cheers
H

Post by **zorruno** » Wed Nov 26, 2003 6:59 pm

But I'm
going to change the oil to a good synthetic anyway, do I need to do anything
about the undrainable mineral oil in the engine as I make this change?)

Mobil 1 mixes quite happily with mineral oils if necessary. I use it,
supposedly every 5k kms, but it often becomes a bit longer than that...
Every few changes I drain, run some cheaper oil through, then drain again,
new filter, fill with Mobil 1. It can't harm it, not much extra effort once
the car is on the ramps, and may get a few more gunk deposits out for
another $20 or so.

My MX had a water leak a while ago, and the engine was run VERY hot for a
fair while (I wasn't driving...). I think the quality of the oil helped in
not distroying the block, so it is not only less engine wear that I am
greatful for with quality synthetic oils...

What do we recommend as a filter?

I've pulled both the Mazda ones (from Japan) and the Repco ones apart, and
the Mazda ones definately look better constructed IMO. The Mazda ones are
also a bit smaller, so easier to install (a 1.8L with aircon, emissions
control, etc etc needs a small hand to do a filter change!)

cheers
H

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