V8 Supercars

Archives of Posts to the NZ MX5 List back in 2004
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EricW
See my 5 and raise you.
See my 5 and raise you.
Posts: 95
Joined: Wed May 24, 2006 7:07 pm
Location: Whangaparaoa

V8 Supercars

Post by EricW » Wed Nov 24, 2004 8:43 am

Sorry guys, I also have to agree.

I think it a great shame that Auckland has lost the event, but it was, as Dick
Hubbard said, in one of the few sensible things I have ever heard him say, a
no-brainer that trying to run a Street Race in the selected location was never
going to get through the RMA. It was not helped by the relatively brief
closure of Fanshawe St a few weeks back, due to a fatal accident, which caused
absolute chaos.

I think the problem was that, like everything else involving cars in Auckland,
they tried to do it on the cheap, if we could raise the money for the
facilities to run America's Cup, it should not have been that difficult to
find the money to develop a proper facility which did not have the obvious
objections that Vic Park had.

However I do have to admit that the lack of vision in Auckland would make this
difficult, after all, we have the council elected on the basis of NOT building
a road, the locals trying to close Western Springs, the newly arrived "country
bourgeois" trying to close Jet activities at Ardmore and all manner of people
opposing a second airport at Whenuapai.

It seems that anything good in this city is going to catch it big-time from
the lefty clobbering machine.

Any attempt to do something noisy and exciting in Auckland is going to be
worse than trying to push it up hill with a fork. For our next MX5 outing, how
about the Garden Show, to watch the grass growing, (no modified exhausts
though please)!

Regards

Eric

darryl

V8 Supercars

Post by darryl » Wed Nov 24, 2004 6:43 pm

Simon,
Now you are starting to sound like an Australian PM! Like the Ozzy MP's. you
arent giving the general public any credit. We arent dumb arses that cant tell
the difference between controlled conditions (closed roads) and a publicaly
used road. Noise, that goes hand in hand with motorsport, its only a few days
a year.
Congestion, if Aucklanders dont want congestion, move out of auckland or
convince your employers that having your office unnesasarily in the CBD isnt
going to lift the profile of your buisness, only its costs, so move the office
to a more accessable area. Again, its only going to be worse for a few days a
year.
Yes motorsport is a minority sport, but almost every New Zealander has
something in common with it (we are known as a country that loves our cars),
we all drive cars. The Americas cup appeared to be worth building a whole new
water front trown for, yet on a grand scale of things, if motorsport is a
minority sport, then yachting barely rates a 'min' sport. Its simply a sport
for the rick and the rich only then to top if off when we won the Cup they
shut down queen street, and associated streets for a bloody parade! then they
also do it for the xmas parade, of which a fictional character takes center
place, go figure??

I do agree it is a stupid place to think it would be easy to acheive, but its
only not worked because of the old cronies who should be living in beach side
rest homes. But for what the event is and what it could have done for NZ, it
should have been given a fighting chance at least.

Now Dick wants to build a big stadium to rival that of other town and cities
because for reasons like we need it to ever get a Rugby wold cup heald here
again. Who cares, we get enough rugby played in NZ we dont need yet another
multi $million stadium for rugby. If they can afford that, they can afford to
successfully get the street race to succeed, if not, help with the cost of
building a world rating race track like that proposed for Hampton downs, and
while they are at it, how about a real drag strip facility?

Motorsport may be a minority sport, but we all still pay our taxes and rates,
so we all deserve to have our interests catered for!

Biff

V8 Supercars

Post by Biff » Wed Nov 24, 2004 9:18 pm

Go Simon,

I agree, is it a case of "cant" or "wont"?

How many millions of tax payer bucks for Auckland's events?

They also shut down K road for a gay parade, and sponsor it as well!

You can do anything if you really want to, personally I'm pleased Dorkland
has thrown it away, bring it to ChCh, we can put it on at Wigram, take it
back to Wellington, that was fun!

If I hear one more BS poor me about Auckland's roads, I'm going to shoot
some one. For a city that drains 1.67% of GDP, and I have to pay a cent a
litre every time I put gas in the car you should be thankful the rest of us
talk to you when it comes to anything associated with bitumen :-)

Cheers

Biff


_____

From: e-admin@mx5club.org.nz [mailto:e-admin@mx5club.org.nz] On Behalf Of
darryl
Sent: Wednesday, 24 November 2004 6:44 p.m.
To: MX5List
Subject: Re: V8 Supercars


Simon,

Now you are starting to sound like an Australian PM! Like the Ozzy MP's. you
arent giving the general public any credit. We arent dumb arses that cant
tell the difference between controlled conditions (closed roads) and a
publicaly used road. Noise, that goes hand in hand with motorsport, its only
a few days a year.

Congestion, if Aucklanders dont want congestion, move out of auckland or
convince your employers that having your office unnesasarily in the CBD
isnt going to lift the profile of your buisness, only its costs, so move the
office to a more accessable area. Again, its only going to be worse for a
few days a year.

Yes motorsport is a minority sport, but almost every New Zealander has
something in common with it (we are known as a country that loves our cars),
we all drive cars. The Americas cup appeared to be worth building a whole
new water front trown for, yet on a grand scale of things, if motorsport is
a minority sport, then yachting barely rates a 'min' sport. Its simply a
sport for the rick and the rich only then to top if off when we won the Cup
they shut down queen street, and associated streets for a bloody parade!
then they also do it for the xmas parade, of which a fictional character
takes center place, go figure??


I do agree it is a stupid place to think it would be easy to acheive, but
its only not worked because of the old cronies who should be living in beach
side rest homes. But for what the event is and what it could have done for
NZ, it should have been given a fighting chance at least.


Now Dick wants to build a big stadium to rival that of other town and cities
because for reasons like we need it to ever get a Rugby wold cup heald here
again. Who cares, we get enough rugby played in NZ we dont need yet another
multi $million stadium for rugby. If they can afford that, they can afford
to successfully get the street race to succeed, if not, help with the cost
of building a world rating race track like that proposed for Hampton downs,
and while they are at it, how about a real drag strip facility?


Motorsport may be a minority sport, but we all still pay our taxes and
rates, so we all deserve to have our interests catered for!

Mike Jolley

V8 Supercars

Post by Mike Jolley » Wed Nov 24, 2004 10:38 pm

no v8 supercars=no buy hubbards

Simon Lord
See my 5 and raise you.
See my 5 and raise you.
Posts: 98
Joined: Fri Sep 22, 2006 1:09 pm
Location: Albany

V8 Supercars

Post by Simon Lord » Wed Nov 24, 2004 11:32 pm

Perhaps I should put my earlier comments into some perspective. I don't live
in Auckland but in Orewa. I work from home so I am not affected by commuting.
What that means is that when I go to meetings in Auckland I time them to start
no earlier than 10am and end no later than 3pm unless they are going to go on
past 6.30. I am one of the lucky few who can do that, but most people from the
region can't and I understand their frustration. Unfortunately, the problem
wouldn't have been for a few days a year but a few weeks.

Let's be honest, central Auckland was always a stupid place to suggest holding
this event. The isthmus is too narrow and there are no alternative routes, but
showbiz wants a seafront spectacular. Try Wellington. Bring back the Lady
Wigram Trophy and hold it round the streets of Christchurch - excepting the
tram lines (we can do disused airfields in Auckland, but that's not what
showbiz demands).

And yes I would love to pay lower house prices, lower rates, lower fuel costs,
waste less time on the road and live somewhere more peaceful but 80% of my
clients are Auckland-based and that's how business is. Don't make it an
anti-Auckland thing - if another city can do it better with less hassle, good
on them. But remember a substantial proportion of tax payers actually live in
Auckland so keep a sense of proportion, please. We're not all bad people...

And Darryl, I do give the general public credit for commonsense - but not the
hyped up idiots in cars which are too powerful or too poorly maintained for
them to handle, or the hoons trying to act out Ford/Holden rivalries on the
streets every day. Perhaps we have more of them in Auckland too - sigh!

Cheers - let's just enjoy our driving while we still can...

Simon
97 SR Ltd (sparkle green)
Email: simon@franchise.co.nz

darryl

V8 Supercars

Post by darryl » Thu Nov 25, 2004 12:49 pm

haha, funny that, my shpping day yesterday is the first I havent bought my
customeray two boxes of hubbards lol (purely coincidence I might add lol)

Simon, I do agree completely with you, just most Aucklanders complain about
things they could fix with simple commonsence, like yourself, not basing
yourself where you dont need to be.
And I agree, get the race back to wellington or chch, they both seem happy to
have it.

EricW
See my 5 and raise you.
See my 5 and raise you.
Posts: 95
Joined: Wed May 24, 2006 7:07 pm
Location: Whangaparaoa

V8 Supercars

Post by EricW » Fri Nov 26, 2004 8:37 am

Sorry Biff, I don't understand the comment about Auckland draining 1.6% of
GDP. Greater Auckland produces at least 40% of GDP

What I do understand is that Auckland's roads have been chronically
underfunded for decades. Yes, one hell of a lot of money has been spent, but
with 50% of the country's population residing in Greater Auckland, it needs to
be. That 50% of the population travels further and more often than any other
population in NZ and, ipso facto, makes the greatest contribution to road
taxes. Much of this tax has built roads in Christchurch. By the way, you may
pay a cent, we pay 7cents in special taxes and get bugger all of it
re-invested in our roads.

The basic problem with Auckland is the shape of the place, it is essentially
an hourglass, with large areas of population living both North and South of a
very narrow corridor, on which the main business hub and all of the roads are
centred. The main industrial areas are well out, but on both sides of the
business hub, which means that workers who work in the South, but live in the
North, and vice versa, have to transit this narrow corridor, some 1 million of
them, twice a day. (Now you might say that you should get a job on your side
of the divide, but it isn't that simple, with the cost of property leasing in
Auckland, businesses are very mobile to stay competitive with their costs, you
go where the work is).

You cannot compare this situation to Christchurch, with only about 20% of the
population of Auckland and lots of room to build straight, flat, wide, roads.

Right where the main stream of traffic enters the CBD, and the bottleneck,
from the North, you will find Fanshawe Street. It is the main road into
Auckland from the North and leads directly into Downtown, there is only one
other viable Northern city access, Cook St, but it leads into the top of town
and travelling to Downtown from there is congested enough now.

At the point where the Northern Motorway debouches onto Fanshawe St is
Victoria Park, where these races were to be held.

Frankly, anyone who thinks that you can disrupt traffic on Fanshawe St, for
the weeks needed to set up and break down the Barriers, Grandstands and other
facilities, (Gold Coast takes about 12 weeks in total to set up and tear down
the Indy Race) and then close Fanshawe St totally for four days, without
bringing the major business area of New Zealand to it's knees, needs to take a
reality check.

If IMG and Auckland City, under John Banks, had wanted, from the outset, to
have this project fail, there is no site in Auckland which was more certain to
achieve that result.

Because of the "hourglass" effect, any disruption to flow in this area has an
enormous impact, and as I mentioned previously, closing Fanshawe St for four
hours, to tidy up a fatal accident, caused utter chaos.

I live in Whangaparaoa, very near to Simon, in the Northern suburbs of
Auckland. My office is in Penrose, in South Auckland, 52 km from home.
(Auckland is a very big place compared to Christchurch). I accept this drive
daily, because doing what I do needs to be done in and around Penrose, but I
prefer, and fortunately can afford, to live in a more pleasant part of the
city, which caters to the things I like to do when not working. It's called
"work/life balance"

It takes me at least 11/2 hours to get to work each morning and the same to
get home at night, frankly I enjoy this as it allows me to listen to Classical
Music and Opera, played very loudly, which "the other half" won't tolerate at
home.

On the morning of the fatal accident at Fanshawe St, I took nearly four hours
to get to the office and I was in a queue 32 km long. That was only a
relatively brief closure but there simply is no other way to get where you
need to go, it all goes through that one point.

Auckland desparately needs other routes and massive investment in roading, but
even with all of the money in the World, it still would not be easy. We have
two large harbours to get across or under. Going across has structural
difficulties and aesthetic considerations, going under is massively costly,
because of the hard, volcanic nature of Auckland's rock structures.

But the main problem is political. Planning, purchasing, approving and
constructing major roadworks takes years, much more than an electoral cycle,
and the "NIMBY" factor will ensure that any Council which starts one of these
projects will be voted out before the planning stages are completed. This was
elegantly demonstrated about 8 weeks ago in respect of the Eastern Arterial
Route.

In my humble view, the solution to Auckland's roading problem does not lie in
money, resource consent or physical geography. Until we have electoral terms
in this country which are long enough for politicians to have the opportunity
to exercise their political will, and I think 5 years is a reasonable figure,
this problem, and many others like it, will continue to hold the country
back.

For the record, whilst I would never have gone to see the street races, I was
a strong supporter of the idea, on the basis that cities need events like this
to thrive. But putting it in Victoria Park was one truly dumb idea!

Regards

Eric

Simon Lord
See my 5 and raise you.
See my 5 and raise you.
Posts: 98
Joined: Fri Sep 22, 2006 1:09 pm
Location: Albany

V8 Supercars

Post by Simon Lord » Fri Nov 26, 2004 11:54 am

Didn't realise you were up here, Eric. If you live on the peninsula, you 'll
know ALL about traffic congestion at the moment!

Will keep an eye out for you - what's the colour/rego?

Simon
97 SR Ltd (sparkle green)
Email: simon@franchise.co.nz

Fletch
Yes. I might just know (Trusted Advisor)
Yes. I might just know (Trusted Advisor)
Posts: 119
Joined: Thu May 18, 2006 10:11 pm
Location: Auckland

V8 Supercars

Post by Fletch » Fri Nov 26, 2004 9:42 pm

I love motorsport, I have, before marriage and kids, attended Pukekohe five or
six times in a single 12-month period, whilst also participating in local
motorsport, and travelling to Taupo and/or BayPark on the odd occasion, just
to watch cars go round and round. I still try to attend an event or two at
Puke, when allowed.

There is no way I wouldnt have attended an Auckland street race, and would
have loved to...

But even I thought the location they wanted was colossally dumb and
unrealistic, and didnt expect it to be approved.

Yes, a street race, SOMEWHERE would be great... but not where they tried to
put it. What Eric described below is a realistic and valid evaluation of the
Auckland traffic/geography problem.

Fletch.
Red '90. Many n/a mods and Link ECU

EricW
See my 5 and raise you.
See my 5 and raise you.
Posts: 95
Joined: Wed May 24, 2006 7:07 pm
Location: Whangaparaoa

V8 Supercars

Post by EricW » Sat Nov 27, 2004 10:33 am

Thanks Fletch

Eric

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