No Thermostat? Agreements and Disagreements

MadMaz · Post by **MadMaz** » Thu Mar 09, 2006 6:05 pm

Hi Euen and to all

Good point Euen. This prompted me to ring and check with 12 radiator repair
specialists and motor mechanics - and do a web search on the topic "running
an engine without the thermostat".

Well at least everybody, but a couple, stated that running your car without
the thermostat is highly not recommended unless in an emergency.

But... there was a mass of different theories and reasons for why you
shouldn't do this, and there appeared to be little agreement!

Some said "because the engine will run too cool and therefore not run
efficiently nor produce the proper power - as the running tolerances will be
slack - and there will also in time be a build up of sludge in the sump and
carbon deposits in the cylinder head and piston crown".
Others said: "because the engine will run too hot, as the flow of
circulating coolant will be so fast, that the effective heat transfer from
the head/block to the radiator will be inefficient".

But the were a lot more theories besides...running both hot and
cold...in a whole host of different directions!

Some suggested that as not all engines are plumbed to the radiator exactly
the same, the internal flow dynamics without a thermostat could well be
different. And engines, varying by make and model, have the temp sensors in
a whole host of different places - so a reading taken in one engine could
well be different from another in the same general circumstances.

Well, what I know is what I have actually seen happen as in the past, viewed
as an ametuer mechanic and listening to what experienced professional
mechanics had to say about each case. But very humbly, now pass on the
subject for further comment onto Geoff as an A Grade mechanic and to Darryl,
who really knows his stuff!

Cheers all
Mark

Tony Chapman · Post by **Tony Chapman** » Thu Mar 09, 2006 7:12 pm

From my Mini modifying days, I seem to recall that if you wanted to remove

the thermostat, then you needed to replace it with a blanking plate to make
sure that some of the water was directed in the appropriate directions. This
was only recommended for high performance applications, ie good warm up
times and fuel economy weren't an issue, also cooling one of those engines
was always marginal.

Cheers, Tony
Silver BA

[...]

Tony Chapman · Post by **Tony Chapman** » Thu Mar 09, 2006 7:12 pm

From my Mini modifying days, I seem to recall that if you wanted to remove

the thermostat, then you needed to replace it with a blanking plate to make
sure that some of the water was directed in the appropriate directions. This
was only recommended for high performance applications, ie good warm up
times and fuel economy weren't an issue, also cooling one of those engines
was always marginal.

Cheers, Tony
Silver BA

[...]

EricW · Post by **EricW** » Thu Mar 09, 2006 10:28 pm

It seems there are as many opinions as mechanics.

I noticed when driving my BMW down the far side of the Kaimais, that it
would start to cool down and be very cold at the bottom, which all suggested
a stuck thermostat to me. Taking this up with Team McMillan I was told that,
due to the fuel management system, the car did not use enough fuel, going
down a hill like that, to keep the engine warm. Clarkson said something
similar when he was doing his endurance run in the Audi A8 Diesel. So I left
it at that.

Some time later the car overheated, blowing steam through the air
conditioner, and I found that a split had developed in a hose betweeen the
head and the back of the block. $15 for the hose, $160 to take the car apart
to fit it. Cause, as diagnosed by Jerry Clayton BMW, overheating in the
area at the back of the block, due to a stuck open thermostat. Note stuck
OPEN not stuck closed.

They told me in no uncertain terms that running without a thermostat was a
"no no" and could wreck a big straight six in no time, I was lucky that the
hose had blown to alert me to the problem. The rear cylinders overheat,
exactly as Mark suggests.

Regards

Eric

EricW · Post by **EricW** » Thu Mar 09, 2006 10:28 pm

It seems there are as many opinions as mechanics.

I noticed when driving my BMW down the far side of the Kaimais, that it
would start to cool down and be very cold at the bottom, which all suggested
a stuck thermostat to me. Taking this up with Team McMillan I was told that,
due to the fuel management system, the car did not use enough fuel, going
down a hill like that, to keep the engine warm. Clarkson said something
similar when he was doing his endurance run in the Audi A8 Diesel. So I left
it at that.

Some time later the car overheated, blowing steam through the air
conditioner, and I found that a split had developed in a hose betweeen the
head and the back of the block. $15 for the hose, $160 to take the car apart
to fit it. Cause, as diagnosed by Jerry Clayton BMW, overheating in the
area at the back of the block, due to a stuck open thermostat. Note stuck
OPEN not stuck closed.

They told me in no uncertain terms that running without a thermostat was a
"no no" and could wreck a big straight six in no time, I was lucky that the
hose had blown to alert me to the problem. The rear cylinders overheat,
exactly as Mark suggests.

Regards

Eric

Mikael Bjornstjerna · Post by **Mikael Bjornstjerna** » Fri Mar 10, 2006 3:32 am

Hi Mark,

Of course the thermostat's there for a function and who do you think
would take away parts of the engine without reason? Don't underestimate
your readers.
Let me tell a story.

When the engine overheated in the middle of nowhere on a friday
afternoon and several Mazda's service centers told me to take away the
thermostat - without any risks - I just had it done, (you would have
started to argue, I imagine), and continued my lengthy journey.
On monday morning at a Mazda service center a mechanic put in the old
thermostat and the engine overheated. He took away the thermostat and
reved up the engine for a while, it functioned as it should and a new
thermostat was put in. OK? That's all, man.

Cheers

Mik

Le 9 mars 06, ` 10:28, Eric & Ann West a icrit :

[...]

Mikael Bjornstjerna · Post by **Mikael Bjornstjerna** » Fri Mar 10, 2006 3:32 am

Hi Mark,

Of course the thermostat's there for a function and who do you think
would take away parts of the engine without reason? Don't underestimate
your readers.
Let me tell a story.

When the engine overheated in the middle of nowhere on a friday
afternoon and several Mazda's service centers told me to take away the
thermostat - without any risks - I just had it done, (you would have
started to argue, I imagine), and continued my lengthy journey.
On monday morning at a Mazda service center a mechanic put in the old
thermostat and the engine overheated. He took away the thermostat and
reved up the engine for a while, it functioned as it should and a new
thermostat was put in. OK? That's all, man.

Cheers

Mik

Le 9 mars 06, ` 10:28, Eric & Ann West a icrit :

[...]

MadMaz · Post by **MadMaz** » Fri Mar 10, 2006 11:01 am

Hi Mik

Who do I think would take away parts of an engine without reason? I'll
answer you very honestly.

When I was a young fellow still wet behind the ears - I did.

I removed the thermostat from my Datsun 1200 when it was overheating. It
then registered cool on the temp gauge, but the engine blew up as a result 2
months later. I was berated and told off to the stocking tops for doing so
by a very experienced and very wise old mechanic. And in those days (early
'80s) an engine repair was an expensive business in relation to the dollars
one typically earned. (Also had to replace the rad as it was the cause of
the original problem).

I was one of the cases I referred to earlier. Among the other 11 or so who
had done the same thing.

I don't underestimate anybody Mik, but we all can make mistakes. My
intention was to inform, so that others might not repeat the same mistakes.

If it helps save other people money, time and inconvenience, I'm always
willing to pass on what I've learned from hard experience.

So if in doubt about the thermostat, do not simply remove it - replace it
with a new one - then see what the result is.

Cheers
Mark

Simon Lord · Post by **Simon Lord** » Fri Mar 10, 2006 11:18 am

Oh I do love a heated discussion...

Simon

Simon Lord · Post by **Simon Lord** » Fri Mar 10, 2006 11:18 am

Oh I do love a heated discussion...

Simon

MadMaz · Post by **MadMaz** » Fri Mar 10, 2006 11:39 am

Gidday Simon

I like that one Simon!

Heated!

Very nice pun and very well done! That cracked me up no end!

What do they say - laughter is the best medicine? Thanks for that one &
really appreciate it!

Cheers & all the best.
Mark

KSCRIM · Post by **KSCRIM** » Fri Mar 10, 2006 1:20 pm

Actually I think it was an "overheated" discussion.

Kevin

[...]

KSCRIM · Post by **KSCRIM** » Fri Mar 10, 2006 1:20 pm

Actually I think it was an "overheated" discussion.

Kevin

[...]

Colin · Post by **Colin** » Fri Mar 10, 2006 2:56 pm

Just cool it you guys

Colin
Cell: 021 782748

From ibeardslee@gmail.com Fri Apr 27 17:49:47 2007
DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com;
h=received:message-id

from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references;
b=kkVGJXzmEUl2/YEF5XmiK6Gdmkc+nSQ+4jcDaYhdHVogE3IaCG6F4ZDPeCFdMMnN6gDcvdufFQut9XXPX4UFTHgHGqxQ9OLBK0z6eLfggL4qG0D9qsuKVlrjsqkY3LYlOaTFbKK8Gd+Y09FDhWNgTNyp7s+XusYTrqb5E1RRImI=
Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2006 15:37:15 +1300
From: "Ian Beardslee" <ibeardslee@gmail.com>
To: MX5List <mx5list@mx5club.org.nz>
Subject: Re: No Thermostat? Agreements and Disagreements
In-Reply-To: <000701c643e5$d32755a0$a08958db@colin6405410a4>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
References: <BAY13-F254D37CC2DEAB12FC3042F7ED0@phx.gbl>
<000701c643e5$d32755a0$a08958db@colin6405410a4>
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Precedence: list
Message-ID: <LEeQW.A.TFH.ZGZMGB@L733>

Bah, this conversation has gone cold.

On 10/03/06, Colin Partington <colin@starsecurity.co.nz> wrote:
[...]

Colin · Post by **Colin** » Fri Mar 10, 2006 2:56 pm

Just cool it you guys

Colin
Cell: 021 782748

From ibeardslee@gmail.com Fri Apr 27 17:49:47 2007
DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com;
h=received:message-id

from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references;
b=kkVGJXzmEUl2/YEF5XmiK6Gdmkc+nSQ+4jcDaYhdHVogE3IaCG6F4ZDPeCFdMMnN6gDcvdufFQut9XXPX4UFTHgHGqxQ9OLBK0z6eLfggL4qG0D9qsuKVlrjsqkY3LYlOaTFbKK8Gd+Y09FDhWNgTNyp7s+XusYTrqb5E1RRImI=
Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2006 15:37:15 +1300
From: "Ian Beardslee" <ibeardslee@gmail.com>
To: MX5List <mx5list@mx5club.org.nz>
Subject: Re: No Thermostat? Agreements and Disagreements
In-Reply-To: <000701c643e5$d32755a0$a08958db@colin6405410a4>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
References: <BAY13-F254D37CC2DEAB12FC3042F7ED0@phx.gbl>
<000701c643e5$d32755a0$a08958db@colin6405410a4>
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Precedence: list
Message-ID: <LEeQW.A.TFH.ZGZMGB@L733>

Bah, this conversation has gone cold.

On 10/03/06, Colin Partington <colin@starsecurity.co.nz> wrote:
[...]

Bill Rehm · Post by **Bill Rehm** » Fri Mar 10, 2006 6:43 pm

May I suggest you all do NOT give up your day jobs to become 'stand-up
comics'

Bill

Bill Rehm · Post by **Bill Rehm** » Fri Mar 10, 2006 6:43 pm

May I suggest you all do NOT give up your day jobs to become 'stand-up
comics'

Bill

MadMaz · Post by **MadMaz** » Fri Mar 10, 2006 9:10 pm

C'mon Bill

Don't be such a bucket of cold water! Siimple humour's the best
kind around!

And good humour goes hand in hand with the good life and having some fun.
Like getting into your MX5 every morning and turning the key, hearing the
engine rumble into life, and knowing you've got one of the most exciting
rides on the planet!

Cheers
Mark

Bill Rehm · Post by **Bill Rehm** » Fri Mar 10, 2006 9:21 pm

"hearing the engine rumble into life, and knowing you've got one of the
most exciting rides on the planet"

Now that's what I call a subjective (if not a good) sense of humour!

Bill Rehm · Post by **Bill Rehm** » Fri Mar 10, 2006 9:21 pm

"hearing the engine rumble into life, and knowing you've got one of the
most exciting rides on the planet"

Now that's what I call a subjective (if not a good) sense of humour!

MadMaz · Post by **MadMaz** » Fri Mar 10, 2006 9:51 pm

Why?

Mark

Mikael Bjornstjerna · Post by **Mikael Bjornstjerna** » Fri Mar 10, 2006 10:47 pm

Hi Mark,

Your opinion and concern about mankind is touching.

You must have deep pockets - in all senses - carrying around all these
spare parts
like thermostats, etc. and when an engine overheats in the middle of
nowhere you
just replace the thermostat with a new one. That's also practical and
moneysaving
since you don't need to call a Mazda center. They're all wrong in any
case, right?!

More Cheers!

Mik

Le 9 mars 06, ` 23:39, Mark O'Sullivan a icrit :

[...]

Mikael Bjornstjerna · Post by **Mikael Bjornstjerna** » Fri Mar 10, 2006 10:47 pm

Hi Mark,

Your opinion and concern about mankind is touching.

You must have deep pockets - in all senses - carrying around all these
spare parts
like thermostats, etc. and when an engine overheats in the middle of
nowhere you
just replace the thermostat with a new one. That's also practical and
moneysaving
since you don't need to call a Mazda center. They're all wrong in any
case, right?!

More Cheers!

Mik

Le 9 mars 06, ` 23:39, Mark O'Sullivan a icrit :

[...]

MadMaz · Post by **MadMaz** » Fri Mar 10, 2006 11:35 pm

Hi Mik

Thanks for your sentiments and observations Mik.

No, I don't need to call a Mazda centre.

If my car overheats, no matter where it is, I woud have it towed. The risk
otherwise is not worth it.

Cheers
Mark

Who is online