Morning
I am interested in the experience and comments on members on the relative
merits of tyre and wheel size.
Over a few beers a group of MX5ers discussed the merits of fitting 16" or 17"
wheels to a MX5. We didn't reach consensus but matters we considered important
included rotating weight, profile, ride wheel type and handling.
I would be interested in the experience and advice of others as a number of
the group are considering such a move. Also, have members found certain alloys
better than others as I understand that the MX5 has a non stndard offset.
Appreciate any feedback.
Tony
Wheels and Tyres
-
garry
Wheels and Tyres
215 40 17's are about as big as you can go, ride is no different to uprated
springs, but handling is excelent not to mention they just look good.
Garry
springs, but handling is excelent not to mention they just look good.
Garry
-
garry
Wheels and Tyres
215 40 17's are about as big as you can go, ride is no different to uprated
springs, but handling is excelent not to mention they just look good.
Garry
springs, but handling is excelent not to mention they just look good.
Garry
Wheels and Tyres
Sorry Garry I strongly disagree,
Don't get 17's.
If you want "big" wheels get 16's.
17's are just too big, too keep your speedo accurate you need pretty thin
rubber, and they'll be just too thin to enjoy driving your car.
If you have more sidewall you'll have a bit more warning when things are
about to turn "pear shaped".
ALSO .. you need to make sure what ever you get is light weight. I'd try and
get as close to the stock wheel weight as you can. Heavier wheels tend to
pull and take some fun out of the MX-5.
I've got a big set of shiny 17's sitting in the garage, the factory 15s ride
so much better.
Additionally you'll need to make sure you get the correct offset.
Sorry for the "cut and paste" response, but this question is often asked on
MX-5 / Miata forums.
My 2 cents,
Dave.
_____
From: e-admin@mx5club.org.nz [mailto:e-admin@mx5club.org.nz] On Behalf Of
garry
Sent: Tuesday, 3 January 2006 7:19 AM
To: MX5List
Subject: Re: Wheels and Tyres
215 40 17's are about as big as you can go, ride is no different to uprated
springs, but handling is excelent not to mention they just look good.
Garry
Don't get 17's.
If you want "big" wheels get 16's.
17's are just too big, too keep your speedo accurate you need pretty thin
rubber, and they'll be just too thin to enjoy driving your car.
If you have more sidewall you'll have a bit more warning when things are
about to turn "pear shaped".
ALSO .. you need to make sure what ever you get is light weight. I'd try and
get as close to the stock wheel weight as you can. Heavier wheels tend to
pull and take some fun out of the MX-5.
I've got a big set of shiny 17's sitting in the garage, the factory 15s ride
so much better.
Additionally you'll need to make sure you get the correct offset.
Sorry for the "cut and paste" response, but this question is often asked on
MX-5 / Miata forums.
My 2 cents,
Dave.
_____
From: e-admin@mx5club.org.nz [mailto:e-admin@mx5club.org.nz] On Behalf Of
garry
Sent: Tuesday, 3 January 2006 7:19 AM
To: MX5List
Subject: Re: Wheels and Tyres
215 40 17's are about as big as you can go, ride is no different to uprated
springs, but handling is excelent not to mention they just look good.
Garry
If you had access to a car like this, would you take it back right away? Neither would I.
Wheels and Tyres
Sorry Garry I strongly disagree,
Don't get 17's.
If you want "big" wheels get 16's.
17's are just too big, too keep your speedo accurate you need pretty thin
rubber, and they'll be just too thin to enjoy driving your car.
If you have more sidewall you'll have a bit more warning when things are
about to turn "pear shaped".
ALSO .. you need to make sure what ever you get is light weight. I'd try and
get as close to the stock wheel weight as you can. Heavier wheels tend to
pull and take some fun out of the MX-5.
I've got a big set of shiny 17's sitting in the garage, the factory 15s ride
so much better.
Additionally you'll need to make sure you get the correct offset.
Sorry for the "cut and paste" response, but this question is often asked on
MX-5 / Miata forums.
My 2 cents,
Dave.
_____
From: e-admin@mx5club.org.nz [mailto:e-admin@mx5club.org.nz] On Behalf Of
garry
Sent: Tuesday, 3 January 2006 7:19 AM
To: MX5List
Subject: Re: Wheels and Tyres
215 40 17's are about as big as you can go, ride is no different to uprated
springs, but handling is excelent not to mention they just look good.
Garry
Don't get 17's.
If you want "big" wheels get 16's.
17's are just too big, too keep your speedo accurate you need pretty thin
rubber, and they'll be just too thin to enjoy driving your car.
If you have more sidewall you'll have a bit more warning when things are
about to turn "pear shaped".
ALSO .. you need to make sure what ever you get is light weight. I'd try and
get as close to the stock wheel weight as you can. Heavier wheels tend to
pull and take some fun out of the MX-5.
I've got a big set of shiny 17's sitting in the garage, the factory 15s ride
so much better.
Additionally you'll need to make sure you get the correct offset.
Sorry for the "cut and paste" response, but this question is often asked on
MX-5 / Miata forums.
My 2 cents,
Dave.
_____
From: e-admin@mx5club.org.nz [mailto:e-admin@mx5club.org.nz] On Behalf Of
garry
Sent: Tuesday, 3 January 2006 7:19 AM
To: MX5List
Subject: Re: Wheels and Tyres
215 40 17's are about as big as you can go, ride is no different to uprated
springs, but handling is excelent not to mention they just look good.
Garry
If you had access to a car like this, would you take it back right away? Neither would I.
-
Badcat
- Need, more, 5-ing, time....
- Posts: 158
- Joined: Thu May 18, 2006 10:24 pm
- Location: Auckland city
Wheels and Tyres
i'm with david.
i have 14" with Volks RAY racing lightweight wheels.
i run Toyo FM9R DOT legal race tyres and i've never had better grip
in an mx5.
i've had 15" and 16"s also - this in my second mx5 and i've had this
one for 8 years.
i also run adjustable Konis, eibach springs and uprated swaybars.
i've every available chassis brace, and have even replaced both frame
rails with stronger square tube.
my suspension was very harsh with 16s - i find that the 14's sidewall
flex gives me a lot of compliance.
ken
On 3/01/2006, at 6:14 PM, David wrote:
[...]
i have 14" with Volks RAY racing lightweight wheels.
i run Toyo FM9R DOT legal race tyres and i've never had better grip
in an mx5.
i've had 15" and 16"s also - this in my second mx5 and i've had this
one for 8 years.
i also run adjustable Konis, eibach springs and uprated swaybars.
i've every available chassis brace, and have even replaced both frame
rails with stronger square tube.
my suspension was very harsh with 16s - i find that the 14's sidewall
flex gives me a lot of compliance.
ken
On 3/01/2006, at 6:14 PM, David wrote:
[...]
-
Badcat
- Need, more, 5-ing, time....
- Posts: 158
- Joined: Thu May 18, 2006 10:24 pm
- Location: Auckland city
Wheels and Tyres
i'm with david.
i have 14" with Volks RAY racing lightweight wheels.
i run Toyo FM9R DOT legal race tyres and i've never had better grip
in an mx5.
i've had 15" and 16"s also - this in my second mx5 and i've had this
one for 8 years.
i also run adjustable Konis, eibach springs and uprated swaybars.
i've every available chassis brace, and have even replaced both frame
rails with stronger square tube.
my suspension was very harsh with 16s - i find that the 14's sidewall
flex gives me a lot of compliance.
ken
On 3/01/2006, at 6:14 PM, David wrote:
[...]
i have 14" with Volks RAY racing lightweight wheels.
i run Toyo FM9R DOT legal race tyres and i've never had better grip
in an mx5.
i've had 15" and 16"s also - this in my second mx5 and i've had this
one for 8 years.
i also run adjustable Konis, eibach springs and uprated swaybars.
i've every available chassis brace, and have even replaced both frame
rails with stronger square tube.
my suspension was very harsh with 16s - i find that the 14's sidewall
flex gives me a lot of compliance.
ken
On 3/01/2006, at 6:14 PM, David wrote:
[...]
-
garry
Wheels and Tyres
I'm not sure why this seems to elude everyone but if you spend heaps on
getting rid of flex in the car for better handling why are you all so anti
getting rid of it at the point where it is the greatest.
The tyre sidewall flex is worse than chassis flex and worse than suspension
movement so why not start there, its all very well that these things haven't
been readily available in the past but since you can now deal with it without
spending your life savings why not.
Low profile tyres on standard suspension gives probably a better handling
performance than all the mods you can do to chassis or suspension and still
leaves enough comfort in the ride to actually enjoy driving your car, unless
you are one of those people who likes having their insides churned on every
bump bigger than a 10 cent piece.
For those of you who don't have race suspension mods already on your car I
would seriously suggest you start at the wheels ... you may just find you
don't need to go any further.
There is a down side to this though my speedo reads a little high one or 2 kph
but its not too hard sitting on 98 instead of 100 and the tyres will wear down
eventually to make it right but I do have breaking issues, anyone who has
"driven" their mx5 will be well aware that these were there to start with, but
I have almost full face chrome 17's on mine and they just don't have the air
flow that the standard wheels had, however they look good and handle well so
im happy with this compromise.
This is my second mx5 it has standard suspension and standard ride height but
my first one was lowered and stiffened in the suspension, this one with the
17's easily out handles the first one with all the suspension mods and is a
little more comfortable to ride in as well.
Garry
getting rid of flex in the car for better handling why are you all so anti
getting rid of it at the point where it is the greatest.
The tyre sidewall flex is worse than chassis flex and worse than suspension
movement so why not start there, its all very well that these things haven't
been readily available in the past but since you can now deal with it without
spending your life savings why not.
Low profile tyres on standard suspension gives probably a better handling
performance than all the mods you can do to chassis or suspension and still
leaves enough comfort in the ride to actually enjoy driving your car, unless
you are one of those people who likes having their insides churned on every
bump bigger than a 10 cent piece.
For those of you who don't have race suspension mods already on your car I
would seriously suggest you start at the wheels ... you may just find you
don't need to go any further.
There is a down side to this though my speedo reads a little high one or 2 kph
but its not too hard sitting on 98 instead of 100 and the tyres will wear down
eventually to make it right but I do have breaking issues, anyone who has
"driven" their mx5 will be well aware that these were there to start with, but
I have almost full face chrome 17's on mine and they just don't have the air
flow that the standard wheels had, however they look good and handle well so
im happy with this compromise.
This is my second mx5 it has standard suspension and standard ride height but
my first one was lowered and stiffened in the suspension, this one with the
17's easily out handles the first one with all the suspension mods and is a
little more comfortable to ride in as well.
Garry
-
garry
Wheels and Tyres
I'm not sure why this seems to elude everyone but if you spend heaps on
getting rid of flex in the car for better handling why are you all so anti
getting rid of it at the point where it is the greatest.
The tyre sidewall flex is worse than chassis flex and worse than suspension
movement so why not start there, its all very well that these things haven't
been readily available in the past but since you can now deal with it without
spending your life savings why not.
Low profile tyres on standard suspension gives probably a better handling
performance than all the mods you can do to chassis or suspension and still
leaves enough comfort in the ride to actually enjoy driving your car, unless
you are one of those people who likes having their insides churned on every
bump bigger than a 10 cent piece.
For those of you who don't have race suspension mods already on your car I
would seriously suggest you start at the wheels ... you may just find you
don't need to go any further.
There is a down side to this though my speedo reads a little high one or 2 kph
but its not too hard sitting on 98 instead of 100 and the tyres will wear down
eventually to make it right but I do have breaking issues, anyone who has
"driven" their mx5 will be well aware that these were there to start with, but
I have almost full face chrome 17's on mine and they just don't have the air
flow that the standard wheels had, however they look good and handle well so
im happy with this compromise.
This is my second mx5 it has standard suspension and standard ride height but
my first one was lowered and stiffened in the suspension, this one with the
17's easily out handles the first one with all the suspension mods and is a
little more comfortable to ride in as well.
Garry
getting rid of flex in the car for better handling why are you all so anti
getting rid of it at the point where it is the greatest.
The tyre sidewall flex is worse than chassis flex and worse than suspension
movement so why not start there, its all very well that these things haven't
been readily available in the past but since you can now deal with it without
spending your life savings why not.
Low profile tyres on standard suspension gives probably a better handling
performance than all the mods you can do to chassis or suspension and still
leaves enough comfort in the ride to actually enjoy driving your car, unless
you are one of those people who likes having their insides churned on every
bump bigger than a 10 cent piece.
For those of you who don't have race suspension mods already on your car I
would seriously suggest you start at the wheels ... you may just find you
don't need to go any further.
There is a down side to this though my speedo reads a little high one or 2 kph
but its not too hard sitting on 98 instead of 100 and the tyres will wear down
eventually to make it right but I do have breaking issues, anyone who has
"driven" their mx5 will be well aware that these were there to start with, but
I have almost full face chrome 17's on mine and they just don't have the air
flow that the standard wheels had, however they look good and handle well so
im happy with this compromise.
This is my second mx5 it has standard suspension and standard ride height but
my first one was lowered and stiffened in the suspension, this one with the
17's easily out handles the first one with all the suspension mods and is a
little more comfortable to ride in as well.
Garry
-
Badcat
- Need, more, 5-ing, time....
- Posts: 158
- Joined: Thu May 18, 2006 10:24 pm
- Location: Auckland city
Wheels and Tyres
oh, sorry Garry, it HAS eluded me!!!
that's what i've been doing wrong in my 25 years of driving!
i'll return the car to standard and nip down to magwarehouse and get
some pimpin' 18 chromies on HP.
they'll be twice the weight of a decent wheel, but who cares about
unsprung weight huh?
and maybe some nankang 35 series tyres!
that should sort my car out perfectly.
thanks for all your help.
Ken
On 4/01/2006, at 11:13 AM, garry wrote:
[...]
From chris.tankard@aderant.com Fri Apr 27 17:39:26 2007
Content-class: urn:content-classes:message
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: RE: Wheels and Tyres
Date: Wed, 4 Jan 2006 12:50:57 +1300
Thread-Topic: Wheels and Tyres
Thread-Index: AcYQseslVhCEyPikSa+4k19nP4e29AADietw
From: "Chris Tankard" <chris.tankard@aderant.com>
To: "MX5List" <mx5list@mx5club.org.nz>
Precedence: list
Message-ID: <OHuaFB.A.71G.WGZMGB@L733>
This is a subject that really interests me.
Again recommending miata.net as there is a huge amount of discussion
there - but thought that the following extract sums it up nicely (well
for me anyway).
C
A light wheel has less inertia, and so when you encounter bumps and
potholes the wheel requires less force to move up and down in response
to the road surface. A heavy wheel/tire has more inertia, so when it
hits a bump and starts going up, more force is transmitted into the
suspension and through to the car than is the case with a light wheel.
In other words, a heavy wheel/tire on a Miata actually rides much
rougher than a light wheel/tire. 40 lbs each corner is pretty extreme -
there are plenty of options that will give you 30 - 32 lbs for a
wheel/tire combo. You would definitely notice a much smoother ride with
a wheel/tire set that is 10 lbs lighter per corner than what you've got!
...
One thing that most responders haven't mentioned, though Gordon
certainly came close and definetly was describing the phenomena is the
ratio of sprung to unsprung weight.
For those that don't already know, 'unsprung weight' is simply that
weight which is does not affect the load on the spring on the wheel in
question. The tire, wheel, brake rotor, caliper, hub, bearings and
spindle as well as a significant part of the A-Arm is generally unsprung
weight. When 'adding lightness' to a road vehicle, be it a racecar or
even a truck, taking it from the unsprung list is always a good thing
and usually the most noticable.
Big heavy cars seem to 'ride' well not because they are so heavy or
because they have such good suspension systems, but because that heavy
chassis allows for a reasonable sprung to unsprung weight ratio, even
with those big seats, padded tops and gigantic fake wire wheel covers.
Heavy Duty trucks don't usually ride as well because those heavy
springs, axles, wheels and tires are on the wrong side of the equation
until the truck gets a load on it, changing the ratio (and also getting
the 'sprung' load more inline with the springs actual rating).
Conversely, a small, relatively light car, such as an MX-5/Miata,
requires careful choices for wheels, tires and even certain chassis
components or the that ratio will still be poor, even if alloy wheels
are specified and they seem very light compared to those big, wallowing,
road barges like some old style Lincolns or Caddies.
Lightweight tires and wheels are at the 'tip of the spear' as it
pertains to unsprung chassis weight. Since they also spin during
operation, they also affect acceleration and braking somewhat because of
stored kinetic energy.
That's why the choice is so important and a bad choice is so readily
apparent in handling feel
________________________________
From: e-admin@mx5club.org.nz [mailto:e-admin@mx5club.org.nz] On Behalf
Of garry
Sent: Wednesday, 4 January 2006 11:14 AM
To: MX5List
Subject: Re: Wheels and Tyres
I'm not sure why this seems to elude everyone but if you spend heaps on
getting rid of flex in the car for better handling why are you all so
anti getting rid of it at the point where it is the greatest.
The tyre sidewall flex is worse than chassis flex and worse than
suspension movement so why not start there, its all very well that these
things haven't been readily available in the past but since you can now
deal with it without spending your life savings why not.
Low profile tyres on standard suspension gives probably a better
handling performance than all the mods you can do to chassis or
suspension and still leaves enough comfort in the ride to actually enjoy
driving your car, unless you are one of those people who likes having
their insides churned on every bump bigger than a 10 cent piece.
For those of you who don't have race suspension mods already on your car
I would seriously suggest you start at the wheels ... you may just find
you don't need to go any further.
There is a down side to this though my speedo reads a little high one or
2 kph but its not too hard sitting on 98 instead of 100 and the tyres
will wear down eventually to make it right but I do have breaking
issues, anyone who has "driven" their mx5 will be well aware that these
were there to start with, but I have almost full face chrome 17's on
mine and they just don't have the air flow that the standard wheels had,
however they look good and handle well so im happy with this compromise.
This is my second mx5 it has standard suspension and standard ride
height but my first one was lowered and stiffened in the suspension,
this one with the 17's easily out handles the first one with all the
suspension mods and is a little more comfortable to ride in as well.
Garry
that's what i've been doing wrong in my 25 years of driving!
i'll return the car to standard and nip down to magwarehouse and get
some pimpin' 18 chromies on HP.
they'll be twice the weight of a decent wheel, but who cares about
unsprung weight huh?
and maybe some nankang 35 series tyres!
that should sort my car out perfectly.
thanks for all your help.
Ken
On 4/01/2006, at 11:13 AM, garry wrote:
[...]
From chris.tankard@aderant.com Fri Apr 27 17:39:26 2007
Content-class: urn:content-classes:message
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: RE: Wheels and Tyres
Date: Wed, 4 Jan 2006 12:50:57 +1300
Thread-Topic: Wheels and Tyres
Thread-Index: AcYQseslVhCEyPikSa+4k19nP4e29AADietw
From: "Chris Tankard" <chris.tankard@aderant.com>
To: "MX5List" <mx5list@mx5club.org.nz>
Precedence: list
Message-ID: <OHuaFB.A.71G.WGZMGB@L733>
This is a subject that really interests me.
Again recommending miata.net as there is a huge amount of discussion
there - but thought that the following extract sums it up nicely (well
for me anyway).
C
A light wheel has less inertia, and so when you encounter bumps and
potholes the wheel requires less force to move up and down in response
to the road surface. A heavy wheel/tire has more inertia, so when it
hits a bump and starts going up, more force is transmitted into the
suspension and through to the car than is the case with a light wheel.
In other words, a heavy wheel/tire on a Miata actually rides much
rougher than a light wheel/tire. 40 lbs each corner is pretty extreme -
there are plenty of options that will give you 30 - 32 lbs for a
wheel/tire combo. You would definitely notice a much smoother ride with
a wheel/tire set that is 10 lbs lighter per corner than what you've got!
...
One thing that most responders haven't mentioned, though Gordon
certainly came close and definetly was describing the phenomena is the
ratio of sprung to unsprung weight.
For those that don't already know, 'unsprung weight' is simply that
weight which is does not affect the load on the spring on the wheel in
question. The tire, wheel, brake rotor, caliper, hub, bearings and
spindle as well as a significant part of the A-Arm is generally unsprung
weight. When 'adding lightness' to a road vehicle, be it a racecar or
even a truck, taking it from the unsprung list is always a good thing
and usually the most noticable.
Big heavy cars seem to 'ride' well not because they are so heavy or
because they have such good suspension systems, but because that heavy
chassis allows for a reasonable sprung to unsprung weight ratio, even
with those big seats, padded tops and gigantic fake wire wheel covers.
Heavy Duty trucks don't usually ride as well because those heavy
springs, axles, wheels and tires are on the wrong side of the equation
until the truck gets a load on it, changing the ratio (and also getting
the 'sprung' load more inline with the springs actual rating).
Conversely, a small, relatively light car, such as an MX-5/Miata,
requires careful choices for wheels, tires and even certain chassis
components or the that ratio will still be poor, even if alloy wheels
are specified and they seem very light compared to those big, wallowing,
road barges like some old style Lincolns or Caddies.
Lightweight tires and wheels are at the 'tip of the spear' as it
pertains to unsprung chassis weight. Since they also spin during
operation, they also affect acceleration and braking somewhat because of
stored kinetic energy.
That's why the choice is so important and a bad choice is so readily
apparent in handling feel
________________________________
From: e-admin@mx5club.org.nz [mailto:e-admin@mx5club.org.nz] On Behalf
Of garry
Sent: Wednesday, 4 January 2006 11:14 AM
To: MX5List
Subject: Re: Wheels and Tyres
I'm not sure why this seems to elude everyone but if you spend heaps on
getting rid of flex in the car for better handling why are you all so
anti getting rid of it at the point where it is the greatest.
The tyre sidewall flex is worse than chassis flex and worse than
suspension movement so why not start there, its all very well that these
things haven't been readily available in the past but since you can now
deal with it without spending your life savings why not.
Low profile tyres on standard suspension gives probably a better
handling performance than all the mods you can do to chassis or
suspension and still leaves enough comfort in the ride to actually enjoy
driving your car, unless you are one of those people who likes having
their insides churned on every bump bigger than a 10 cent piece.
For those of you who don't have race suspension mods already on your car
I would seriously suggest you start at the wheels ... you may just find
you don't need to go any further.
There is a down side to this though my speedo reads a little high one or
2 kph but its not too hard sitting on 98 instead of 100 and the tyres
will wear down eventually to make it right but I do have breaking
issues, anyone who has "driven" their mx5 will be well aware that these
were there to start with, but I have almost full face chrome 17's on
mine and they just don't have the air flow that the standard wheels had,
however they look good and handle well so im happy with this compromise.
This is my second mx5 it has standard suspension and standard ride
height but my first one was lowered and stiffened in the suspension,
this one with the 17's easily out handles the first one with all the
suspension mods and is a little more comfortable to ride in as well.
Garry
-
Badcat
- Need, more, 5-ing, time....
- Posts: 158
- Joined: Thu May 18, 2006 10:24 pm
- Location: Auckland city
Wheels and Tyres
oh, sorry Garry, it HAS eluded me!!!
that's what i've been doing wrong in my 25 years of driving!
i'll return the car to standard and nip down to magwarehouse and get
some pimpin' 18 chromies on HP.
they'll be twice the weight of a decent wheel, but who cares about
unsprung weight huh?
and maybe some nankang 35 series tyres!
that should sort my car out perfectly.
thanks for all your help.
Ken
On 4/01/2006, at 11:13 AM, garry wrote:
[...]
From chris.tankard@aderant.com Fri Apr 27 17:39:26 2007
Content-class: urn:content-classes:message
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: RE: Wheels and Tyres
Date: Wed, 4 Jan 2006 12:50:57 +1300
Thread-Topic: Wheels and Tyres
Thread-Index: AcYQseslVhCEyPikSa+4k19nP4e29AADietw
From: "Chris Tankard" <chris.tankard@aderant.com>
To: "MX5List" <mx5list@mx5club.org.nz>
Precedence: list
Message-ID: <OHuaFB.A.71G.WGZMGB@L733>
This is a subject that really interests me.
Again recommending miata.net as there is a huge amount of discussion
there - but thought that the following extract sums it up nicely (well
for me anyway).
C
A light wheel has less inertia, and so when you encounter bumps and
potholes the wheel requires less force to move up and down in response
to the road surface. A heavy wheel/tire has more inertia, so when it
hits a bump and starts going up, more force is transmitted into the
suspension and through to the car than is the case with a light wheel.
In other words, a heavy wheel/tire on a Miata actually rides much
rougher than a light wheel/tire. 40 lbs each corner is pretty extreme -
there are plenty of options that will give you 30 - 32 lbs for a
wheel/tire combo. You would definitely notice a much smoother ride with
a wheel/tire set that is 10 lbs lighter per corner than what you've got!
...
One thing that most responders haven't mentioned, though Gordon
certainly came close and definetly was describing the phenomena is the
ratio of sprung to unsprung weight.
For those that don't already know, 'unsprung weight' is simply that
weight which is does not affect the load on the spring on the wheel in
question. The tire, wheel, brake rotor, caliper, hub, bearings and
spindle as well as a significant part of the A-Arm is generally unsprung
weight. When 'adding lightness' to a road vehicle, be it a racecar or
even a truck, taking it from the unsprung list is always a good thing
and usually the most noticable.
Big heavy cars seem to 'ride' well not because they are so heavy or
because they have such good suspension systems, but because that heavy
chassis allows for a reasonable sprung to unsprung weight ratio, even
with those big seats, padded tops and gigantic fake wire wheel covers.
Heavy Duty trucks don't usually ride as well because those heavy
springs, axles, wheels and tires are on the wrong side of the equation
until the truck gets a load on it, changing the ratio (and also getting
the 'sprung' load more inline with the springs actual rating).
Conversely, a small, relatively light car, such as an MX-5/Miata,
requires careful choices for wheels, tires and even certain chassis
components or the that ratio will still be poor, even if alloy wheels
are specified and they seem very light compared to those big, wallowing,
road barges like some old style Lincolns or Caddies.
Lightweight tires and wheels are at the 'tip of the spear' as it
pertains to unsprung chassis weight. Since they also spin during
operation, they also affect acceleration and braking somewhat because of
stored kinetic energy.
That's why the choice is so important and a bad choice is so readily
apparent in handling feel
________________________________
From: e-admin@mx5club.org.nz [mailto:e-admin@mx5club.org.nz] On Behalf
Of garry
Sent: Wednesday, 4 January 2006 11:14 AM
To: MX5List
Subject: Re: Wheels and Tyres
I'm not sure why this seems to elude everyone but if you spend heaps on
getting rid of flex in the car for better handling why are you all so
anti getting rid of it at the point where it is the greatest.
The tyre sidewall flex is worse than chassis flex and worse than
suspension movement so why not start there, its all very well that these
things haven't been readily available in the past but since you can now
deal with it without spending your life savings why not.
Low profile tyres on standard suspension gives probably a better
handling performance than all the mods you can do to chassis or
suspension and still leaves enough comfort in the ride to actually enjoy
driving your car, unless you are one of those people who likes having
their insides churned on every bump bigger than a 10 cent piece.
For those of you who don't have race suspension mods already on your car
I would seriously suggest you start at the wheels ... you may just find
you don't need to go any further.
There is a down side to this though my speedo reads a little high one or
2 kph but its not too hard sitting on 98 instead of 100 and the tyres
will wear down eventually to make it right but I do have breaking
issues, anyone who has "driven" their mx5 will be well aware that these
were there to start with, but I have almost full face chrome 17's on
mine and they just don't have the air flow that the standard wheels had,
however they look good and handle well so im happy with this compromise.
This is my second mx5 it has standard suspension and standard ride
height but my first one was lowered and stiffened in the suspension,
this one with the 17's easily out handles the first one with all the
suspension mods and is a little more comfortable to ride in as well.
Garry
that's what i've been doing wrong in my 25 years of driving!
i'll return the car to standard and nip down to magwarehouse and get
some pimpin' 18 chromies on HP.
they'll be twice the weight of a decent wheel, but who cares about
unsprung weight huh?
and maybe some nankang 35 series tyres!
that should sort my car out perfectly.
thanks for all your help.
Ken
On 4/01/2006, at 11:13 AM, garry wrote:
[...]
From chris.tankard@aderant.com Fri Apr 27 17:39:26 2007
Content-class: urn:content-classes:message
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: RE: Wheels and Tyres
Date: Wed, 4 Jan 2006 12:50:57 +1300
Thread-Topic: Wheels and Tyres
Thread-Index: AcYQseslVhCEyPikSa+4k19nP4e29AADietw
From: "Chris Tankard" <chris.tankard@aderant.com>
To: "MX5List" <mx5list@mx5club.org.nz>
Precedence: list
Message-ID: <OHuaFB.A.71G.WGZMGB@L733>
This is a subject that really interests me.
Again recommending miata.net as there is a huge amount of discussion
there - but thought that the following extract sums it up nicely (well
for me anyway).
C
A light wheel has less inertia, and so when you encounter bumps and
potholes the wheel requires less force to move up and down in response
to the road surface. A heavy wheel/tire has more inertia, so when it
hits a bump and starts going up, more force is transmitted into the
suspension and through to the car than is the case with a light wheel.
In other words, a heavy wheel/tire on a Miata actually rides much
rougher than a light wheel/tire. 40 lbs each corner is pretty extreme -
there are plenty of options that will give you 30 - 32 lbs for a
wheel/tire combo. You would definitely notice a much smoother ride with
a wheel/tire set that is 10 lbs lighter per corner than what you've got!
...
One thing that most responders haven't mentioned, though Gordon
certainly came close and definetly was describing the phenomena is the
ratio of sprung to unsprung weight.
For those that don't already know, 'unsprung weight' is simply that
weight which is does not affect the load on the spring on the wheel in
question. The tire, wheel, brake rotor, caliper, hub, bearings and
spindle as well as a significant part of the A-Arm is generally unsprung
weight. When 'adding lightness' to a road vehicle, be it a racecar or
even a truck, taking it from the unsprung list is always a good thing
and usually the most noticable.
Big heavy cars seem to 'ride' well not because they are so heavy or
because they have such good suspension systems, but because that heavy
chassis allows for a reasonable sprung to unsprung weight ratio, even
with those big seats, padded tops and gigantic fake wire wheel covers.
Heavy Duty trucks don't usually ride as well because those heavy
springs, axles, wheels and tires are on the wrong side of the equation
until the truck gets a load on it, changing the ratio (and also getting
the 'sprung' load more inline with the springs actual rating).
Conversely, a small, relatively light car, such as an MX-5/Miata,
requires careful choices for wheels, tires and even certain chassis
components or the that ratio will still be poor, even if alloy wheels
are specified and they seem very light compared to those big, wallowing,
road barges like some old style Lincolns or Caddies.
Lightweight tires and wheels are at the 'tip of the spear' as it
pertains to unsprung chassis weight. Since they also spin during
operation, they also affect acceleration and braking somewhat because of
stored kinetic energy.
That's why the choice is so important and a bad choice is so readily
apparent in handling feel
________________________________
From: e-admin@mx5club.org.nz [mailto:e-admin@mx5club.org.nz] On Behalf
Of garry
Sent: Wednesday, 4 January 2006 11:14 AM
To: MX5List
Subject: Re: Wheels and Tyres
I'm not sure why this seems to elude everyone but if you spend heaps on
getting rid of flex in the car for better handling why are you all so
anti getting rid of it at the point where it is the greatest.
The tyre sidewall flex is worse than chassis flex and worse than
suspension movement so why not start there, its all very well that these
things haven't been readily available in the past but since you can now
deal with it without spending your life savings why not.
Low profile tyres on standard suspension gives probably a better
handling performance than all the mods you can do to chassis or
suspension and still leaves enough comfort in the ride to actually enjoy
driving your car, unless you are one of those people who likes having
their insides churned on every bump bigger than a 10 cent piece.
For those of you who don't have race suspension mods already on your car
I would seriously suggest you start at the wheels ... you may just find
you don't need to go any further.
There is a down side to this though my speedo reads a little high one or
2 kph but its not too hard sitting on 98 instead of 100 and the tyres
will wear down eventually to make it right but I do have breaking
issues, anyone who has "driven" their mx5 will be well aware that these
were there to start with, but I have almost full face chrome 17's on
mine and they just don't have the air flow that the standard wheels had,
however they look good and handle well so im happy with this compromise.
This is my second mx5 it has standard suspension and standard ride
height but my first one was lowered and stiffened in the suspension,
this one with the 17's easily out handles the first one with all the
suspension mods and is a little more comfortable to ride in as well.
Garry
-
garry
Wheels and Tyres
Hi Ken,
I was only trying to politely point out that people overlook the obvious
sometimes and make a suggestion based on first hand experience rather than
something ive read on a web site.
Unsprung weight is a good point wheels will be heavier but then the tyre is
smaller in mass so this will be lighter, there are plenty of performance light
wheels about if you know what to look for and you can always choose your tyre
based on weight as well if this is what you want to achieve.
Garry
I was only trying to politely point out that people overlook the obvious
sometimes and make a suggestion based on first hand experience rather than
something ive read on a web site.
Unsprung weight is a good point wheels will be heavier but then the tyre is
smaller in mass so this will be lighter, there are plenty of performance light
wheels about if you know what to look for and you can always choose your tyre
based on weight as well if this is what you want to achieve.
Garry
-
garry
Wheels and Tyres
Hi Ken,
I was only trying to politely point out that people overlook the obvious
sometimes and make a suggestion based on first hand experience rather than
something ive read on a web site.
Unsprung weight is a good point wheels will be heavier but then the tyre is
smaller in mass so this will be lighter, there are plenty of performance light
wheels about if you know what to look for and you can always choose your tyre
based on weight as well if this is what you want to achieve.
Garry
I was only trying to politely point out that people overlook the obvious
sometimes and make a suggestion based on first hand experience rather than
something ive read on a web site.
Unsprung weight is a good point wheels will be heavier but then the tyre is
smaller in mass so this will be lighter, there are plenty of performance light
wheels about if you know what to look for and you can always choose your tyre
based on weight as well if this is what you want to achieve.
Garry
-
my m5emails
Wheels and Tyres
if you do go to bigger rims and tires then the weight is very important.
with a standard motor going from 14s with 185*60s (race tires) to a normal
after market 15*6.5 rim with 205*50 (race) tires it cost me 5% per lap (4
sec per lap at manfeild), I could hold better corner speed, brake later and
harder, however had very poor acceleration out of the corners, oh it felt
ok, however on one part of the track where I would normally change to 4th
500meters from the corner I carried third all the way to the next corner as
the acceleration was not there. The car has not got the power to overcome
the extra unsprung weight.
This lack of acceleration was very easy to note on the track as you always
change gear on the red line and almost always at the same place, so it is
easy to see if you came out of a corner carrying more speed as you get to
change gear closer to the corner you just came out of. So I knew when I
would normally need to change, however the car just took longer to climb
through the revs, even though I was exiting the corner often with 5km or
more speed than normal.
The tire and rim was about 2.5 kg more per wheel than the 14s.
So get the lightest rims you can if you go to a 15 or 16. Also I would not
think that you need more than a 205.
As I have a race set up with heavy springs and race tuned shocks etc plus
only tested this on the track I could not comment on how they might alter a
standard cars road handling.
Mike
with a standard motor going from 14s with 185*60s (race tires) to a normal
after market 15*6.5 rim with 205*50 (race) tires it cost me 5% per lap (4
sec per lap at manfeild), I could hold better corner speed, brake later and
harder, however had very poor acceleration out of the corners, oh it felt
ok, however on one part of the track where I would normally change to 4th
500meters from the corner I carried third all the way to the next corner as
the acceleration was not there. The car has not got the power to overcome
the extra unsprung weight.
This lack of acceleration was very easy to note on the track as you always
change gear on the red line and almost always at the same place, so it is
easy to see if you came out of a corner carrying more speed as you get to
change gear closer to the corner you just came out of. So I knew when I
would normally need to change, however the car just took longer to climb
through the revs, even though I was exiting the corner often with 5km or
more speed than normal.
The tire and rim was about 2.5 kg more per wheel than the 14s.
So get the lightest rims you can if you go to a 15 or 16. Also I would not
think that you need more than a 205.
As I have a race set up with heavy springs and race tuned shocks etc plus
only tested this on the track I could not comment on how they might alter a
standard cars road handling.
Mike
-
my m5emails
Wheels and Tyres
if you do go to bigger rims and tires then the weight is very important.
with a standard motor going from 14s with 185*60s (race tires) to a normal
after market 15*6.5 rim with 205*50 (race) tires it cost me 5% per lap (4
sec per lap at manfeild), I could hold better corner speed, brake later and
harder, however had very poor acceleration out of the corners, oh it felt
ok, however on one part of the track where I would normally change to 4th
500meters from the corner I carried third all the way to the next corner as
the acceleration was not there. The car has not got the power to overcome
the extra unsprung weight.
This lack of acceleration was very easy to note on the track as you always
change gear on the red line and almost always at the same place, so it is
easy to see if you came out of a corner carrying more speed as you get to
change gear closer to the corner you just came out of. So I knew when I
would normally need to change, however the car just took longer to climb
through the revs, even though I was exiting the corner often with 5km or
more speed than normal.
The tire and rim was about 2.5 kg more per wheel than the 14s.
So get the lightest rims you can if you go to a 15 or 16. Also I would not
think that you need more than a 205.
As I have a race set up with heavy springs and race tuned shocks etc plus
only tested this on the track I could not comment on how they might alter a
standard cars road handling.
Mike
with a standard motor going from 14s with 185*60s (race tires) to a normal
after market 15*6.5 rim with 205*50 (race) tires it cost me 5% per lap (4
sec per lap at manfeild), I could hold better corner speed, brake later and
harder, however had very poor acceleration out of the corners, oh it felt
ok, however on one part of the track where I would normally change to 4th
500meters from the corner I carried third all the way to the next corner as
the acceleration was not there. The car has not got the power to overcome
the extra unsprung weight.
This lack of acceleration was very easy to note on the track as you always
change gear on the red line and almost always at the same place, so it is
easy to see if you came out of a corner carrying more speed as you get to
change gear closer to the corner you just came out of. So I knew when I
would normally need to change, however the car just took longer to climb
through the revs, even though I was exiting the corner often with 5km or
more speed than normal.
The tire and rim was about 2.5 kg more per wheel than the 14s.
So get the lightest rims you can if you go to a 15 or 16. Also I would not
think that you need more than a 205.
As I have a race set up with heavy springs and race tuned shocks etc plus
only tested this on the track I could not comment on how they might alter a
standard cars road handling.
Mike
Wheels and Tyres
Hi Glen
I think I have to agree with you...I was tempted to go with 17's until I
read your post and then also recalled that the three fastest and best
handling cars I've been in were shod with 205/15/50's on 6.5" or 7" wide
wheels.
These were a Lotus 7, an Evo 5 and a modified 1990 Galant VR4 (55's on the
Galant).
I distinctly remember some tyre tests Mitsubishi did a few years ago which
proved that 15" wheels & tyres were the best option to avoid "tyre pinch" on
rough gravel roads. With larger wheels and lower profile tyres they found
there was a much higher incidence of sidewall failure and punctures
generally.
Yeah, it looks like large wheel/low profile tyres could be great for smooth
tarmac - but we haven't got that much smooth road about outside the
motorways in New Zealand. Like, try the roads in Franklin south of Auckland
for instance with the off camber corners and sunken depressions all over
the place.
It's also why I've been informed by suspension experts not to lower a car's
suspension for general on-road use - best retain all the stock travel you've
got to soak up the shocks without bangs, crashes and wheel hop. Go for
uprated springs, gas shocks, anti-roll bars and chassis stiffeners instead.
I was also told that the sidewall stiffness in tyres vary considerably
between brands for the same sizes and to be careful to select the correct
wheel offset - you have to do some research to find out which is the best.
So many thanks for your recommendations Glen.
By the way, has anyone else seen some of the appalling driving about the
highways these holidays? What I've seen in the last three days in the
Waikato would have to rate as the worst I've ever experienced - not just so
much speed, but some very bad car handling skills generally with some really
dangerous overtaking - I wouldn't let some of those drivers loose in a pedal
car.
Cheers
Mark
I think I have to agree with you...I was tempted to go with 17's until I
read your post and then also recalled that the three fastest and best
handling cars I've been in were shod with 205/15/50's on 6.5" or 7" wide
wheels.
These were a Lotus 7, an Evo 5 and a modified 1990 Galant VR4 (55's on the
Galant).
I distinctly remember some tyre tests Mitsubishi did a few years ago which
proved that 15" wheels & tyres were the best option to avoid "tyre pinch" on
rough gravel roads. With larger wheels and lower profile tyres they found
there was a much higher incidence of sidewall failure and punctures
generally.
Yeah, it looks like large wheel/low profile tyres could be great for smooth
tarmac - but we haven't got that much smooth road about outside the
motorways in New Zealand. Like, try the roads in Franklin south of Auckland
for instance with the off camber corners and sunken depressions all over
the place.
It's also why I've been informed by suspension experts not to lower a car's
suspension for general on-road use - best retain all the stock travel you've
got to soak up the shocks without bangs, crashes and wheel hop. Go for
uprated springs, gas shocks, anti-roll bars and chassis stiffeners instead.
I was also told that the sidewall stiffness in tyres vary considerably
between brands for the same sizes and to be careful to select the correct
wheel offset - you have to do some research to find out which is the best.
So many thanks for your recommendations Glen.
By the way, has anyone else seen some of the appalling driving about the
highways these holidays? What I've seen in the last three days in the
Waikato would have to rate as the worst I've ever experienced - not just so
much speed, but some very bad car handling skills generally with some really
dangerous overtaking - I wouldn't let some of those drivers loose in a pedal
car.
Cheers
Mark
Firm Believer in 98 Go Juice - Go for it!
Wheels and Tyres
Hi Glen
I think I have to agree with you...I was tempted to go with 17's until I
read your post and then also recalled that the three fastest and best
handling cars I've been in were shod with 205/15/50's on 6.5" or 7" wide
wheels.
These were a Lotus 7, an Evo 5 and a modified 1990 Galant VR4 (55's on the
Galant).
I distinctly remember some tyre tests Mitsubishi did a few years ago which
proved that 15" wheels & tyres were the best option to avoid "tyre pinch" on
rough gravel roads. With larger wheels and lower profile tyres they found
there was a much higher incidence of sidewall failure and punctures
generally.
Yeah, it looks like large wheel/low profile tyres could be great for smooth
tarmac - but we haven't got that much smooth road about outside the
motorways in New Zealand. Like, try the roads in Franklin south of Auckland
for instance with the off camber corners and sunken depressions all over
the place.
It's also why I've been informed by suspension experts not to lower a car's
suspension for general on-road use - best retain all the stock travel you've
got to soak up the shocks without bangs, crashes and wheel hop. Go for
uprated springs, gas shocks, anti-roll bars and chassis stiffeners instead.
I was also told that the sidewall stiffness in tyres vary considerably
between brands for the same sizes and to be careful to select the correct
wheel offset - you have to do some research to find out which is the best.
So many thanks for your recommendations Glen.
By the way, has anyone else seen some of the appalling driving about the
highways these holidays? What I've seen in the last three days in the
Waikato would have to rate as the worst I've ever experienced - not just so
much speed, but some very bad car handling skills generally with some really
dangerous overtaking - I wouldn't let some of those drivers loose in a pedal
car.
Cheers
Mark
I think I have to agree with you...I was tempted to go with 17's until I
read your post and then also recalled that the three fastest and best
handling cars I've been in were shod with 205/15/50's on 6.5" or 7" wide
wheels.
These were a Lotus 7, an Evo 5 and a modified 1990 Galant VR4 (55's on the
Galant).
I distinctly remember some tyre tests Mitsubishi did a few years ago which
proved that 15" wheels & tyres were the best option to avoid "tyre pinch" on
rough gravel roads. With larger wheels and lower profile tyres they found
there was a much higher incidence of sidewall failure and punctures
generally.
Yeah, it looks like large wheel/low profile tyres could be great for smooth
tarmac - but we haven't got that much smooth road about outside the
motorways in New Zealand. Like, try the roads in Franklin south of Auckland
for instance with the off camber corners and sunken depressions all over
the place.
It's also why I've been informed by suspension experts not to lower a car's
suspension for general on-road use - best retain all the stock travel you've
got to soak up the shocks without bangs, crashes and wheel hop. Go for
uprated springs, gas shocks, anti-roll bars and chassis stiffeners instead.
I was also told that the sidewall stiffness in tyres vary considerably
between brands for the same sizes and to be careful to select the correct
wheel offset - you have to do some research to find out which is the best.
So many thanks for your recommendations Glen.
By the way, has anyone else seen some of the appalling driving about the
highways these holidays? What I've seen in the last three days in the
Waikato would have to rate as the worst I've ever experienced - not just so
much speed, but some very bad car handling skills generally with some really
dangerous overtaking - I wouldn't let some of those drivers loose in a pedal
car.
Cheers
Mark
Firm Believer in 98 Go Juice - Go for it!
Wheels and Tyres
performance than all the mods you can do to chassis or suspension and stillLow profile tyres on standard suspension gives probably a better handling
leaves enough >comfort in the ride to actually enjoy driving your car,
unless you are one of those people who likes having their insides churned on
every bump bigger than a 10 cent >piece.
No malice intended Garry, so please don't take offence.
I use to have 17" 5 zigen wheels on our stock 98 NB8A. They pulled all
sorts of directions when even the slightest bump, they weren't as
predictable as the 15's and they hated pot holes. Oh yeah, they looked
great.
I've now returned to the factory 15" wheels.
I'd only consider upgrading to a 16" light weight wheel.
My car now has Tein Flex, Racing beat front and rear sways, parcel shelf
bracing, sway reinforcement, underbody bracing, strut brace . . I have to
chuckle when you compare big heavy wheels that pull the car in all sorts of
directions with any sort of suspension upgrade.
If anything they did damage to my suspension, as the bushes had to deal with
a greater load.
This isn't "something ive read on a web site." this is real world
experience. I really wouldn't bother writing all this but I really wish
someone would have slapped me upside da head when I thought "mmmmmm those
shiney 17"'s will look great" .
- Dave.
If you had access to a car like this, would you take it back right away? Neither would I.
Wheels and Tyres
performance than all the mods you can do to chassis or suspension and stillLow profile tyres on standard suspension gives probably a better handling
leaves enough >comfort in the ride to actually enjoy driving your car,
unless you are one of those people who likes having their insides churned on
every bump bigger than a 10 cent >piece.
No malice intended Garry, so please don't take offence.
I use to have 17" 5 zigen wheels on our stock 98 NB8A. They pulled all
sorts of directions when even the slightest bump, they weren't as
predictable as the 15's and they hated pot holes. Oh yeah, they looked
great.
I've now returned to the factory 15" wheels.
I'd only consider upgrading to a 16" light weight wheel.
My car now has Tein Flex, Racing beat front and rear sways, parcel shelf
bracing, sway reinforcement, underbody bracing, strut brace . . I have to
chuckle when you compare big heavy wheels that pull the car in all sorts of
directions with any sort of suspension upgrade.
If anything they did damage to my suspension, as the bushes had to deal with
a greater load.
This isn't "something ive read on a web site." this is real world
experience. I really wouldn't bother writing all this but I really wish
someone would have slapped me upside da head when I thought "mmmmmm those
shiney 17"'s will look great" .
- Dave.
If you had access to a car like this, would you take it back right away? Neither would I.
Wheels and Tyres
If anyone is
a) interested and
b) in Auckland
I have a set of 215/40 16s (Champiros) with Spyder Centreline mags, would be willing to do a swap for a week or so if someone wants to have a play with wide/low tires and "heavy" mags before buying...
Peter
DRGN1
a) interested and
b) in Auckland
I have a set of 215/40 16s (Champiros) with Spyder Centreline mags, would be willing to do a swap for a week or so if someone wants to have a play with wide/low tires and "heavy" mags before buying...
Peter
DRGN1
Wheels and Tyres
If anyone is
a) interested and
b) in Auckland
I have a set of 215/40 16s (Champiros) with Spyder Centreline mags, would be willing to do a swap for a week or so if someone wants to have a play with wide/low tires and "heavy" mags before buying...
Peter
DRGN1
a) interested and
b) in Auckland
I have a set of 215/40 16s (Champiros) with Spyder Centreline mags, would be willing to do a swap for a week or so if someone wants to have a play with wide/low tires and "heavy" mags before buying...
Peter
DRGN1
Wheels and Tyres
Hi Dave
It's very interesting to read of your experiences and appreciate your posting.
Saves more mistakes made by trying to "re-invent the wheel" because someone
else has already been there before, tried the options in real-life and has
already discovered the best solution.
Thanks & Cheers
Mark
It's very interesting to read of your experiences and appreciate your posting.
Saves more mistakes made by trying to "re-invent the wheel" because someone
else has already been there before, tried the options in real-life and has
already discovered the best solution.
Thanks & Cheers
Mark
Firm Believer in 98 Go Juice - Go for it!
Wheels and Tyres
Hi Dave
It's very interesting to read of your experiences and appreciate your posting.
Saves more mistakes made by trying to "re-invent the wheel" because someone
else has already been there before, tried the options in real-life and has
already discovered the best solution.
Thanks & Cheers
Mark
It's very interesting to read of your experiences and appreciate your posting.
Saves more mistakes made by trying to "re-invent the wheel" because someone
else has already been there before, tried the options in real-life and has
already discovered the best solution.
Thanks & Cheers
Mark
Firm Believer in 98 Go Juice - Go for it!
-
garry
Wheels and Tyres
Hi Dave,
My car handled like shit when i put the 17's on so i know what you mean but a
wheel alignment fixed that, i will settle for my nice shiny 17's and my
uprated coils and springs can remain in the garage.
Thanx to you and others for giving me something to think about.
Garry
My car handled like shit when i put the 17's on so i know what you mean but a
wheel alignment fixed that, i will settle for my nice shiny 17's and my
uprated coils and springs can remain in the garage.
Thanx to you and others for giving me something to think about.
Garry
-
garry
Wheels and Tyres
Hi Dave,
My car handled like shit when i put the 17's on so i know what you mean but a
wheel alignment fixed that, i will settle for my nice shiny 17's and my
uprated coils and springs can remain in the garage.
Thanx to you and others for giving me something to think about.
Garry
My car handled like shit when i put the 17's on so i know what you mean but a
wheel alignment fixed that, i will settle for my nice shiny 17's and my
uprated coils and springs can remain in the garage.
Thanx to you and others for giving me something to think about.
Garry
Who is online
Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 22 guests
