Good alarm installer! - But need help with the M/W sensor

poison · Post by **poison** » Sun Sep 03, 2006 7:29 pm

After much research on what alarm to buy the answer was (IMHO) don’t waste your money on a trendy brand but still stay away from some of the cheap imports. So I ended up with the Uniden VX2600XR (a 5 star) on special at Repco a while ago for $120 and the central locking mech’s at Jaycar also on special.

I rang a few places and got prices from $250 up for an install. I was recommended a guy called Dean at 0800-CAR ALARMS in Auckland. Gave him a ring and he came to my place on Saturday morning to do the install.

Great job too, I have seen a lot of crap work from so called professional stereo and alarm installers, also being involved in the electrical trade you can easily see good workmanship. He even added some antirust goo on the hole for the bonnet switch. He really knew his stuff, he wasn’t rip sh*t and bust. I won’t give his price but it was very reasonable. And I recommend him.

My problem is the microwave sensor, we set it on minimum but it still triggers when you go anywhere near the car. He put it into the console under the window switches, and has suggested I try it in different locations, anyone had experience here? I did not want to pay for him to spend the rest of the day trying out various locations as I had sort of dumped the M/W sensor on him at the last minute and he had another appointment after me. I haven’t had time to play, maybe wrapping in tin foil? Thoughts please.

The central locking is great by the way!

Grant · Post by **Grant** » Sun Sep 03, 2006 7:39 pm

I also fitted the same unit as yours with the microwave sensor. I also put
the sensor under the window switches and had to set the sensitivity to
minimum. It works well but not as sensitive as yours appears to be. Maybe
mine was a bit down on performance? I would have liked to be able to reduce
the sensitivity a bit more, but don't have too much trouble with triggering
when people walk past the car. Sure does scare the neighbourhood cats if
they jump in the car when the roof is down!
I used the Jaycar central lock mechanism as well and it works fine. Added
the boot release solenoid they have, plus a gas lift for the boot. Very
handy.

[Posted via External Email]

poison · Post by **poison** » Sun Sep 03, 2006 8:07 pm

Hey Grant

Thanks for your reply. Are you in Auckland? I would be keen to do the boot solenoid too. Did you need to buy a whole extra controller and solenoid, or just an extra solenoid? And lastly does the boot work off the second or third button?

I'm looking into somehow using the third button to trigger the garage door.

Cheers

Gazza

---------------------------------------------

[Posted via External Email]

Grant · Post by **Grant** » Sun Sep 03, 2006 8:25 pm

I built my own relay to operate the solenoid. It works off button 2 of the
remote. You have to hold the button for about 3 seconds to operate the
solenoid.
I fitted (one of) my garage door remotes behind the dash with a small push
button to operate it. It would be simple to add a relay to operate the door
remote from the alarm as well. I haven't bothered though as the button is in
the car and the other door opener is mounted on the wall of the house just
inside the back door. No need for the remote operation. The only thing to
remember though is that if the car is left out in the drive then anyone can
push the button and open the garage. Could hide the button I suppose but
it's not a problem and I like the convenience. Mine is mounted beside the
alarm LED which I mounted in the pocket beside the cigarette lighter. The
pocket has been removed and a speaker fitted there with some metal speaker
grill material shaped to cover the hole. The speaker is for my ham radio
gear. Fits quite well and the original pocket can be refitted for sale
later.
Almost forgot, I'm in Blenheim.

[Posted via External Email]

Shermio · Post by **Shermio** » Sun Sep 03, 2006 10:15 pm

Try some metal mesh if it's too sensitive

the sorta stuff found on speaker grilles and experiment until you find a good balance...

take a look at your Microwave (The one that cooks stuff) on the door it uses that to shield the m/ws so it must work

I recently found out that my car's Dynatron was extremely well put together with many extra sensors that were located in unusual locations. The guy at Dynatron was surprised when I took it in for them to have a look at the push button start Mod I was thinking of doing

m ex 5 · Post by **m ex 5** » Sun Sep 03, 2006 10:17 pm

My problem is the microwave sensor, we set it on minimum but it still triggers when you go anywhere near the car. He put it into the console under the window switches, and has suggested I try it in different locations, anyone had experience here? I did not want to pay for him to spend the rest of the day trying out various locations as I had sort of dumped the M/W sensor on him at the last minute and he had another appointment after me. I haven’t had time to play, maybe wrapping in tin foil? Thoughts please.

My guy reckons the MW was the most time consuming part of the the whole install

it's just right sensitivity wise, but took him an age to set up, sadly they can only be set to on the horizontal plane so anything passing over top at ANY height will set it off, including my garage door as I found out :-( and sorry no, wrapping it in tin foil or anything for that matter will not "desensitise" it, which I presume is what you meant.

[Posted via External Email]

poison · Post by **poison** » Sun Sep 03, 2006 11:39 pm

You said "sadly they can only be set to on the horizontal plane so anything passing over top at ANY height will set it off" I wondered about the orientation of the module as the instructions talk about it's elliptical field and how it should face forward, but of course nothing says which side of the unit is forward

Actually the instructions that come with the Uniden are crappy. Product otherwise seems good.

Gazza

[Posted via External Email]

Grant · Post by **Grant** » Mon Sep 04, 2006 7:54 am

The signal is from the same face of the unit as the controls are. If you set
it so the controls are on the top, then the signal will go up. It is
elliptical in shape so that sensitivity is greatest directly above with it
dropping off towards the sides. If you park under a tree with low leafy
branches on a windy day then that will set it off while people walking
beside the car should not. That's how mine works anyway. The sensitivity
control certainly does work. To reduce sensitivity, then wrapping it in some
sort of metal won't work. Tinfoil or fine meshed speaker grill material
should completely block the signal. You would need some sort of material
that will partially attenuate the signal. Not sure what will work and it
will depend on the frequency the detectors use.
Could be worth experimenting. What might work is an anti static plastic bag
as used for electronic parts, especially the type with a wide mesh pattern
rather than completely black. Some of these are conductive so be careful.
Just place a sheet of whatever you try on top of the window switches and see
what the effect is.
Good luck!

[Posted via External Email]

Post by **zorruno** » Mon Sep 04, 2006 3:31 pm

on 3/09/2006 8:30 p.m. Grant wrote:

I fitted (one of) my garage door remotes behind the dash with a small
push button to operate it. The only thing to remember though is that
if the car is left out in the drive then anyone can push the button
and open the garage. Could hide the button I suppose but it's not a
problem and I like the convenience.

Hi Grant

My solution was to power it from the car rather than the batteries - and
via the ign circuit. Then the key has to be in the ign to operate the
opener.

My garage door won't open if my house alarm is armed anyway, so this is
just an added measure...

[Posted via External Email]

Post by **zorruno** » Mon Sep 04, 2006 3:49 pm

on 4/09/2006 7:55 a.m. Grant wrote:

The signal is from the same face of the unit as the controls are. If you
set it so the controls are on the top, then the signal will go up. It is
elliptical in shape so that sensitivity is greatest directly above with it
dropping off towards the sides.

Actually, that is not how I understand the design. They should always
be mounted flat, and the controls usually face up on most models I've
seen (so you can push a screwdriver down in them to adjust).

The elliptical shape they talk about is looking from a plan view - and
will be longest from the front to the rear of the car, with the shorter
sides of the ellipse at the sides of the car. Up and down is less
relevant (although will be about the same distance as the side of the
ellipse) - you should be able to park with tree branches above you - so
long as they are not too close.

Mounting the unit as close to the centre of the car as possible gives
you the best tunable ellipse arrangement. Also you need to mount it
evenly - not on any side to side angle, and not too high up.

Sensitivity controls should reduce the width and length of the ellipse,
for bigger or smaller cars.

If it is a 2 stage microwave, my recommendation is to do away with the
main alarm stage completely (don't connect it), and just tune the
'pre-alarm' stage. That way, you will get the occasional 'blip' from
the alarm, but the alarm will never be set off by the microwave sensor.

Theoretically you should be able to tune the main stage of the sensor to
such a tight level that the ellipse is only 'inside' the car, i.e. only
the act of putting your hand inside (or getting in obviously) will set
it off, but I have never seen one that it that good, and repeatable.
Metal in the car and surroundings will make a difference to the signal
in some way.

cheers

[Posted via External Email]

poison · Post by **poison** » Mon Sep 04, 2006 4:20 pm

On my reading the instruction for this device I tend to agree with Howard on the orientation of the elliptical field, hence I wanted to know which way was forward to face the sensor, I may try the other way tonight. I have to disconnect the break glass though as the pre-warning chirp on my internal siren triggers the glass break L mind you I don’t think this is the biggest issue on an MX5, a roof slash taser would be good.

Of course if I put in a Taser then government may accuse me of targeting certain racial groups….

NZ Herald Friday 1st September
"The Maori Party has raised concerns with the Human Rights Commission about the targeting of specific groups during the Taser trials, like young Polynesian men," said Maori Party MP Hone Harawira.

So I could add pepper spray, but that would also make me a racist,
“If the pepper spray is any indication, police will be racist in its use of the Taser," said Mr Locke, adding that 55 per cent of pepper spray victims were Maori.”

I hope having a loud alarm isn’t targeting any racial groups due to potential hearing damage, or maybe we should have to leave the keys in the car so thieves don’t hurt them selves steeling our cars. Good old NZ protection for the crims.

[Posted via External Email]

KSCRIM · Post by **KSCRIM** » Mon Sep 04, 2006 6:29 pm

My microwave unit is fitted under the carpet just above the center console between the seats and faces forward into the cabin. Seems to work quite well mounted there. No trouble with false triggering,,,,,,,, yet!.

Grant · Post by **Grant** » Mon Sep 04, 2006 6:44 pm

I got that wrong!
Quite right about the shape of the pattern.
My explanation of the face it radiates from was very badly done as well. I
agree with what you say about the control position etc.
Must not reply to posts when tired!
Mine is a two stage sensor and connecting the first stage only seems a good
idea as well. Will experiment when I get the time.

[Posted via External Email]

Grant · Post by **Grant** » Mon Sep 04, 2006 6:44 pm

----- Original Message -----
From: "zorruno" <electrical@mx5forum.co.nz>

My solution was to power it from the car rather than the batteries - and
via the ign circuit. Then the key has to be in the ign to operate the
opener.

My garage door won't open if my house alarm is armed anyway, so this is
just an added measure...

I like that idea. Might have to do that.

[Posted via External Email]

poison · Post by **poison** » Mon Sep 04, 2006 7:02 pm

Hi Grant

Good idea about connecting only the one stage, I'll have a play too....

[Posted via External Email]

Post by **zorruno** » Tue Sep 05, 2006 11:03 am

on 4/09/2006 4:25 p.m. poison wrote:

On my reading the instruction for this device I tend to agree with
Howard on the orientation of the elliptical field, hence I wanted to
know which way was forward to face the sensor, I may try the other way
tonight.

The microwave unit will likely be retangular - the shortest sides of the
rectangle will be the front and back (major axis of ellipse then runs
length of car). Likely that the wires will come out one of the short
sides - so either the front or the back of the unit. It doesn't matter
which way around as the ellipse is symmetrical.

And I wouldn't bother trying to cover it with mesh/metal etc - it will
just create more intermittent problems and be harder to tune. If it is
not working well, try it in a few different positions, or get a
different unit. I think just connecting the prealarm is the easiest
solution for most though.

Remember any close metal will effect it, so if you have the electric
window switches above, you'll need to tweak it, put the console back,
test it, remove the console for more tweaks, etc etc

Oh and another thing, make sure it is screwed down well - any vibrations
of the unit on its mount (e.g. with cars going past) will effect it.

[Posted via External Email]

jamesg · Post by **jamesg** » Wed Sep 06, 2006 9:58 pm

My microwave sensor (and entire 5* alarm) is an AVS unit and was installed by Mag and Turbo in Wellington. They managed to tune it so that a quick movement, like waving your hand quickly in the car, will not set it off, but as soon as you pause for more than about a second it goes off.
If I am stupid enough to leave something on the seat then it could be taken without setting it off, but if they try to open the glove box or get in it will alarm.

I have had no false alarms with it and do leave it parked with the roof down quite a bit, when the Wellington weather permits that is.

Bluesgeek · Post by **Bluesgeek** » Sat Sep 09, 2006 5:30 pm

Hey Gazza, Uniden do a relay module for garage doors, I fitted one to mine in the last house and removed it and fitted it to the gate in this house, its just a relay module and is reasonably easy to fit if you're electrically minded - instructions included, and you can program it to work off any of the buttons.

I had a uniden in my last MX5 and the microwave worked fine under the center console, there is a toad in my current one and that is hypersensitive. Microwave sensors can be tempremental at times, I was fortunate enough to be part of the R&D department at a company in the UK which developed one of the first units for car alarms

They've come a long way in the last 20 ish years!

conceptrat · Post by **conceptrat** » Sun Oct 08, 2006 4:27 pm

Howdy,

I have an Alpine alarm with Microwave sensor installed. The guys at Rapid Radio did the install and placed the Microwave sensor under the carpet just above the back of where the centre console meets the rear deck area.

This works really well and I can have two different settings for the sensor. One is set to the minimum which protects the interior when the top is down. Will go off immediately when someone puts there hand inside the area where you sit. Starts from the top of the headrest and just below roof line.

The other setting is set to go off immediately if the roof is punctured or hit hard but a cat jumping on the roof, heavy rain or small sticks or branches hitting the roof won't set it off.

With both modes anything outside of the immediate area to within about 2 feet, that hangs around will set off a series of warning chirps. It has all the other standard options like glass break sensors, tyre and impact sensors, bonnet/boot and backup battery.

This alarm has been practically faultless except for one time when one of the switches developed a fault and when I accidentally set the valet mode and it kept going off. The install from Rapid Radio covers all of this for the life of the alarm. Not bad.

Cheers
Julz