Coilovers v Adjustable dampers

madandy · Post by **madandy** » Mon Sep 08, 2008 12:00 pm

There are a set of very good Cusco Zero2 coilovers on trademe at the mo and I'm very tempted to buy them. The standard issue spring rates from Cusco are 6kg/mm front and 5 kg/mm rear.
I want to set my Na6 up for track days and hard driving but the reality is most of my driving will be on public roads so there has to be some compromise.
I know some of you are using KONI Damper adjustable shocks with combinations of different springs, maybe KYB AGX as well? and wondered how suitable or cost effective these set ups were compared to the Cuscos.

I plan to upgrade the sway bars and fit some under car braces so really hard springs shouldn't be necessary right?

Growler · Post by **Growler** » Mon Sep 08, 2008 1:20 pm

They have been for sale for a long time. Check them out first.

madandy · Post by **madandy** » Mon Sep 08, 2008 1:53 pm

Yea. personally I think they're asking a little too much for them. The are around $USD1800-2000 new in the states but these have clearly been out of their boxes a fair while. I have a mate in Tokyo looking at some parts but shipping can be a hassle.

madandy · Post by **madandy** » Thu Sep 11, 2008 9:28 pm

Well I checked them out and they are in good nick. I've asked the guy to hold them for me and we've agreed on a favorable price.

The spring rates are 8k/mm front & 7 rear. Some research has shown they will be alright on road and rather excellent on track

I will hold off on the anti roll bars until I've driven them a bit to see how the handling is.

No comments from those using shock & spring combos

marinerbluemx5 · Post by **marinerbluemx5** » Sun Nov 09, 2008 11:51 am

I'm looking to do this kind of upgrade as well (or at least new shocks and springs), any advice on where I should start? Most of the stuff I found on the web were parts from the States, which might be hard to find around here, or expensive to ship.

But yeah long story short my alignment kinda failed, rear camber was good got it up to -1.40 degrees which is a decent street/track compromise, but the fronts wouldn't go any further than -0.40 degrees. So I'm at the suspension mod stage

Growler · Post by **Growler** » Mon Nov 10, 2008 9:51 am

marinerbluemx5 wrote:But yeah long story short my alignment kinda failed, rear camber was good got it up to -1.40 degrees which is a decent street/track compromise, but the fronts wouldn't go any further than -0.40 degrees. So I'm at the suspension mod stage

You could look at adjustable tophats.
They sit on top of the inner guard and you can move the top of the strut inwards to acheive your desired camber.
I can show you on the race car if you want. Just PM me.

poison · Post by **poison** » Mon Nov 10, 2008 10:44 am

marinerbluemx5 wrote:
But yeah long story short my alignment kinda failed, rear camber was good got it up to -1.40 degrees which is a decent street/track compromise, but the fronts wouldn't go any further than -0.40 degrees. So I'm at the suspension mod stage

Odd about the fronts, is that due to lowering or accident damage?
I personally have gone for height adjustable coil overs, downside is cost and of course needing a LVV Cert at $400+ The positive side is being able to finely adjust the height when limited by a steep angled driveway or garage access.

I agree with Growler, the adjustable top-hats are a good solution, Cusco, HKS and many others make them. They are often listed as pillow ball mounts, meaning they have a bearing mount rather than a rubber bushing at the top, giving more feel and predictability to the driver.

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Post by **jif** » Mon Nov 10, 2008 2:09 pm

marinerbluemx5 wrote:I'm looking to do this kind of upgrade as well (or at least new shocks and springs), any advice on where I should start? Most of the stuff I found on the web were parts from the States, which might be hard to find around here, or expensive to ship.

But yeah long story short my alignment kinda failed, rear camber was good got it up to -1.40 degrees which is a decent street/track compromise, but the fronts wouldn't go any further than -0.40 degrees. So I'm at the suspension mod stage

Unless you're planning to cane it pretty hard, you could leave the fronts at -0.4 and have the backs at -0.4 to -1.0. I wouldn't have any issue running this myself.

PS - I just listed my Koni shocks in the classifieds yesteday...

Growler · Post by **Growler** » Mon Nov 10, 2008 2:47 pm

poison wrote:I agree with Growler, the adjustable top-hats are a good solution, Cusco, HKS and many others make them. They are often listed as pillow ball mounts, meaning they have a bearing mount rather than a rubber bushing at the top, giving more feel and predictability to the driver.

And if you are really smart you could machine some up out of aluminium like I did!

2low2c · Post by **2low2c** » Mon Nov 10, 2008 4:06 pm

Ajustable top hats will not change the camber .
as the front suspension is double a arm this only works on cars with struts.
by lowering the car you can get more camber or replaceing the front bushes with ajustable ones.

poison · Post by **poison** » Mon Nov 10, 2008 4:27 pm

Doh… good point

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poison · Post by **poison** » Mon Nov 10, 2008 4:29 pm

By the way, has anyone installed coil over height adjustable shocks and not needed to get LVV Certification?

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Growler · Post by **Growler** » Mon Nov 10, 2008 6:04 pm

poison wrote:Doh… good point

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Doh x 2! We aren't modifying 70's and 80's cars now...
OK...If you are really keen you could manufacture your own top and bottom arms!!!

marinerbluemx5 · Post by **marinerbluemx5** » Mon Nov 10, 2008 8:51 pm

poison wrote:marinerbluemx5 wrote:
Odd about the fronts, is that due to lowering or accident damage?
I personally have gone for height adjustable coil overs, downside is cost and of course needing a LVV Cert at $400+ The positive side is being able to finely adjust the height when limited by a steep angled driveway or garage access.

I'm the 6th owner or something, only had it for a few months, so I'm not sure about accident damage. It's possible. Certainly it's odd that it won't go farther out.

Is the LVV certification needed for lower springs/shocks?

jif wrote:Unless you're planning to cane it pretty hard, you could leave the fronts at -0.4 and have the backs at -0.4 to -1.0. I wouldn't have any issue running this myself.

PS - I just listed my Koni shocks in the classifieds yesteday...

Well, it's a split between track days and spirited weekend driving. The only boring bits are the flat stretches of highway needed to get to the track. But I agree that even a -0.4 and 0.7ish F/R setup isn't bad.

I'm tempted by your Koni shocks... what kind of suspension setup were you running on your car? And what did you have it setup for?

poison · Post by **poison** » Mon Nov 10, 2008 11:23 pm

Technically, any modification at all on the suspension needs a Cert. but they turn a blind eye to stock suspension with lower springs to about 30mm. Anything that is height adjustable needs a permit so you don't go away and lower it more. for some reason Koni's seem exempt as they have little grooves which are supposedly there for all the different models.

Does anyone know what the real difference between NA and NB shock lengths and travel are? I have a few sitting round and the only difference I can see is the NA has flat ended springs and I believe the NA has more travel on the rear shock (lower) than the NB, only as I read not to use the NB rear on an NA, but not sure where I got that from as they look about the same.

There is an article here but it's a little confusing as to what is what is the pictures as it's not really focused on the NA/NB differences. Maybe someone can clarify
http://www.cardomain.com/ride/742393/5

For example he states "Length check - Stock NB shocks vs. NA Koni Sports. Both front and rear NB are ~15mm longer than the NA Konis. NA Bilsteins are 5mm longer than NA Konis. Not sure how stock NA compares to either."

Is he talking about travel, body length or overall length? It's hard to compare the NA and NB without the top mounts as the NB has a lot more poking out the top as it has a lot more rubber bushes. Comments anyone?

PS: Thank God for spell check, my typing is abysmal at times.

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emexfive · Post by **emexfive** » Thu Nov 13, 2008 8:50 am

I don't know the Cuscos. I know the Konis are well thought of. KYB and Tokico illuminas are a popular, respected low cost adjustables in the US. Some people like the higher end Teins (Monoflex?). I've used Spax, which were so so, kind of harsh, and Ohlins, which are fantastic, but stupidly expensive (I felt like splurging for once).

I think the dampers on my new '90 are shot, at least in back (they fail the push on the trunk/boot test and feel loose at times on the road).

I was thinking stock replacements would be fine, but I had a set of Tokico Illuminas on a Civic many year ago and they handled and rode great. In the US those are not a lot more than stock dampers, I was thinking of those with perhaps some mildly stiffer/lower springs. No height adjustment with them however. I don't want to pay for additional paperwork, so perhaps not having that is a good thing?

As for the NA/NB length differences, Fat Cat Motorsports is a fantastic place for MX-5 suspension info. http://www.fatcatmotorsports.com/

Shock lengths:
F:
http://fatcatmotorsports.com/igallery/g ... engths.JPG
R:
http://fatcatmotorsports.com/igallery/g ... engths.JPG

Don't hesitate to ask Shaikh, the owner, questions, he's a really helpful fellow and knows MX-5 suspensions very well.

WRW · Post by **WRW** » Thu Nov 13, 2008 4:49 pm

Hm. I've got Bilstein shocks with Tein lowering springs. So far they have made it through at least 4 WOFs at 2 different WOFing places (On Road and VTNZ) without anybody asking me to get my susp certed?

Fark! Hope I haven't jinxed myself by saying this

poison · Post by **poison** » Thu Nov 13, 2008 5:06 pm

Hi WRW thanks, are they actually height adjustable though? As in having a thread up the outside of the shocks and big nuts to raise and lower the car? Usually springs only are ignored as long as they stay in place when the suspension is full travel, and any solid components of the car, body or chassis are above 100mm form the ground. Body kits, exhausts, etc may be lower.

The reason they need a cert for height adjustable is someone lowering the car too much could allow the spring to move when the car goes over a bump, which could cause a crash. When the height adjustable shocks are certified they print the body ride height on the cert so it can be checked at WOF. So you can’t drive away from a WOF check and lower it more and then claiming “but it’s got a WOF”. It protects the driver and WOF station.

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