Suspension and track times Disscusion

[Snapfrozen]

My race car had a stock engine, know plenty of guys running stock engines. But suspension tyres and brakes is where you will find your time. Its easy to reduce stopping distance and exit speed for low $$, but its not easy to take a second off a lap time down a straight for the same money.

You going to be tracking the car regularly or just an occasional thing?

[chris]

Plan to be tracking regularly..

Goal (and I say goal because it is huge) is 200 rwkw

[Angreal]

Hmm and here I was thinking I'd be happy with say 180-200hp at the flywheel

[Snapfrozen]

Forget power. Get consistant and worry about the 3 I was talking about earlier. Theres no point having power if you can't corner and stop in time before hand

Thats my tip. Then spend shiteloads of money on seat time, then when you cant get any better. Get a turbo

Plan to be tracking regularly..

Goal (and I say goal because it is huge) is 200 rwkw

Also remember if you want to enter a race series, to check if you can turbo your car if it never came turbo from factory

[Bwarp]

Race data.

[chris]

Forget power. Get consistant and worry about the 3 I was talking about earlier. Theres no point having power if you can't corner and stop in time before hand

Thats my tip. Then spend shiteloads of money on seat time, then when you cant get any better. Get a turbo

Plan to be tracking regularly..

Goal (and I say goal because it is huge) is 200 rwkw

Also remember if you want to enter a race series, to check if you can turbo your car if it never came turbo from factory

Yup - I have a list of things before I can get power.

But that is the end goal. Chassis Stiffening and Brakes are the main two upgrades. Wider Wheels.

And the original Race series I was looking into doesn't allow turbo vehicles unless they came stock >.< Soooo I will find another race class

[Angreal]

Much cheaper to race motorbikes $4k on a VFR400R and you can be very competitive, just have to ride like you've got a death sentence

*edit*
But yeah, chassis, brakes and handling has been the main focus for the car so far

[Snapfrozen]

Race data.

This

[Furai]

How about an actual race?

[Angreal]

I stand by my racing motorbikes seems so much easier They're off the shelf race ready, as long as you don't mind the more serious consequences of getting it wrong...

[Donovan]

Plan to be tracking regularly..

Goal (and I say goal because it is huge) is 200 rwkw

I hate to burst your bubble, but I think Snapfrozen is on the right path in what he is saying, get to the limits of what you have now, and then start adding HP.

Maybe you need to set yourself a benchmark compaired to others for track times, and once you hit that, then add/modify. I am not trying to brag or anything, but I can jump into my brother NA8C with stock everything (road pads, and crappy road tyres) and do 1:27-28's at Hamptons, so maybe you should look to be consistently getting those times before making major expensive changes.


It's a bit of a pot calling the kettle black in my case, but I only did the mods to my car as I knew that I had pretty much hit the limit of the car (and yes a pro could have pulled out a few more sec's, but that is a completely different game) as I was keeping up with with other NA6C's out there that the guys had done way more session times that me. It's just with mine, it was go hard or go home. Once on the track in it's current guise, I had another target to hit, which was the same lap times as Tony's SR20DET powered MX5, as we are both about the same HP and same weight (yes I might have a bit more torque, but all that is doing is creating a lot of smoke from the tyres), so figure that was a good benchmark since he has done a bit of track work, and I have mirrored my suspension/brake setup much the same as his.

Just my 2cents worth, hope it helps, maybe this conversation should get moved to it's own suspension thread - calling all moderators.

[Snapfrozen]

The final part to remember, is if you arent used to semi slicks, they take a bit of getting used. Then slicks from there are a step up again. Between that, not fucking bushes, not overheating, not phsyically draining yourself, and not crashing your car. With 200rwkw, you are going to have the reliability side of things to worry about. Alot of custom work on your oil/cooling, you'll then probably have a hot as fark cabin.

You'd probably also want a 6 point cage or better to stiffen the chassis up too. Surprising how floppy they are until you cage them

[Angreal]

Between that, not fucking bushes, not overheating, not phsyically draining yourself, and not crashing your car. With 200rwkw, you are going to have the reliability side of things to worry about. Alot of custom work on your oil/cooling, you'll then probably have a hot as fark cabin.

That is exactly why I'm not keen on to take the car onto the track. One moment of losing control and suddenly you have a large bill on your hands. That and general wear and tear...

[chris]

Plan to be tracking regularly..

Goal (and I say goal because it is huge) is 200 rwkw

I hate to burst your bubble, but I think Snapfrozen is on the right path in what he is saying, get to the limits of what you have now, and then start adding HP.

Maybe you need to set yourself a benchmark compaired to others for track times, and once you hit that, then add/modify. I am not trying to brag or anything, but I can jump into my brother NA8C with stock everything (road pads, and crappy road tyres) and do 1:27-28's at Hamptons, so maybe you should look to be consistently getting those times before making major expensive changes.


It's a bit of a pot calling the kettle black in my case, but I only did the mods to my car as I knew that I had pretty much hit the limit of the car (and yes a pro could have pulled out a few more sec's, but that is a completely different game) as I was keeping up with with other NA6C's out there that the guys had done way more session times that me. It's just with mine, it was go hard or go home. Once on the track in it's current guise, I had another target to hit, which was the same lap times as Tony's SR20DET powered MX5, as we are both about the same HP and same weight (yes I might have a bit more torque, but all that is doing is creating a lot of smoke from the tyres), so figure that was a good benchmark since he has done a bit of track work, and I have mirrored my suspension/brake setup much the same as his.

Just my 2cents worth, hope it helps, maybe this conversation should get moved to it's own suspension thread - calling all moderators.

This did kinda thread jack whoops.

But I'm not planning on just chucking 200 kw in over night. Like I said it is a goal. And that is only a small part of the goal. Lots of work needs to go into the car and engine before I can get it tuurbo ready

[Snapfrozen]

To be honest, that's why I hate Puke, it's so unforgiving. Taupo and Hampton are great, there's runoff's everywhere, you'd struggle to total a car.

That said, I've only ever seen 1 bad crash in racing and that was between 2 front runners fighting for number 1, they ended up stuck together in the sand.

If you worry about it, you'll NEVER hit your best, you'll always be too concerned about the what if's.

I've spun on the first corner at Hampton in traffic and was lucky, got myself as close to the inside wall as I could as fast as I could and cars all got around me. Other than that, have been backwards at Taupo and that was a laugh. Same thing, bought those chaps a beer after the race for missing me.

[SLYDIT]

i went off taupo backwards at some stupid speed. it was in the middle of summer and i had to wait about 2 minutes for the dust to settle so i could see where the track was.

[Donovan]

That is exactly why I'm not keen on to take the car onto the track. One moment of losing control and suddenly you have a large bill on your hands. That and general wear and tear...

In a standard MX5 everything happens so slowly you would have to be asleep at the wheel at Hampton's to really hit anything stationary like a wall, more likely to be hit by something else going a lot faster than you, but at the track days they spilt you into fast groups and slow groups, so that sort of eliminates that.

Wear and tear is pretty minor, as I said my brother's NA8C he does track days (and I used it while my car was off the road) and he doesn't do anything to it, just a normal service, think he has just replaced the standard pads for the first time, and we would have done about 20 odd track days in it. He's a bit gentler on it than I am, but I push it right to the limit

They also have race car drivers at some of the track days that will come out with you (for a small fee) and show you the right lines/braking points (I think our very own Keith Jones has got roped into being one of them at Hampton's as well now), or just follow some of the more experience guys. Most of them are a pretty friendly bunch and will usually give a helping hand, just stay away from most of the pro teams that sometimes are testing down there, some of them can be a bit, um, grumpy.

[Angreal]

If you worry about it, you'll NEVER hit your best, you'll always be too concerned about the what if's.

I'll be the first to admit I could be a better driver. On the bike though... the "what ifs" never go through my mind. Probably the adrenaline over-riding logic

So to bring it back to the topic of suspension... Does anyone in NZ have Ohlins DFVs in their car? I'm guessing I should only consider them when I'm faster than Furai on the skid pad being beaten by a car with blown shocks = embarrassing to say the least.

[Donovan]

To be honest, that's why I hate Puke, it's so unforgiving. Taupo and Hampton are great, there's runoff's everywhere, you'd struggle to total a car.

That said, I've only ever seen 1 bad crash in racing and that was between 2 front runners fighting for number 1, they ended up stuck together in the sand.

If you worry about it, you'll NEVER hit your best, you'll always be too concerned about the what if's.

I've spun on the first corner at Hampton in traffic and was lucky, got myself as close to the inside wall as I could as fast as I could and cars all got around me. Other than that, have been backwards at Taupo and that was a laugh. Same thing, bought those chaps a beer after the race for missing me.

I don't like Puke because it is just plain out boring. The front straight is a bit bumpy (bit unnerving in a single seater), they are supposed to be fixing the front straight for the V8 Supercars and putting in some more sand traps, but don't know how much better it is going to get. It is completely the wrong track to host an international event, it should really be at Taupo,

[Angreal]

It is completely the wrong track to host an international event, it should really be at Taupo,

I would completely agree. I very much like Taupo but I've only ever done the half tracks, never the full one with the two parts connected. Is the post still at that turn at the end of the main straight/drag strip? Always scared the crap out of me

[Donovan]

If you worry about it, you'll NEVER hit your best, you'll always be too concerned about the what if's.

I'll be the first to admit I could be a better driver. On the bike though... the "what ifs" never go through my mind. Probably the adrenaline over-riding logic

So to bring it back to the topic of suspension... Does anyone in NZ have Ohlins DFVs in their car? I'm guessing I should only consider them when I'm faster than Furai on the skid pad being beaten by a car with blown shocks = embarrassing to say the least.

I don't know if a decent suspension setup makes that much of a difference on a skid pan/gymkhana course.

[Snapfrozen]

To be honest, that's why I hate Puke, it's so unforgiving. Taupo and Hampton are great, there's runoff's everywhere, you'd struggle to total a car.

That said, I've only ever seen 1 bad crash in racing and that was between 2 front runners fighting for number 1, they ended up stuck together in the sand.

If you worry about it, you'll NEVER hit your best, you'll always be too concerned about the what if's.

I've spun on the first corner at Hampton in traffic and was lucky, got myself as close to the inside wall as I could as fast as I could and cars all got around me. Other than that, have been backwards at Taupo and that was a laugh. Same thing, bought those chaps a beer after the race for missing me.

I don't like Puke because it is just plain out boring. The front straight is a bit bumpy (bit unnerving in a single seater), they are supposed to be fixing the front straight for the V8 Supercars and putting in some more sand traps, but don't know how much better it is going to get. It is completely the wrong track to host an international event, it should really be at Taupo,

Couldnt agree more. To be honest, the sweeper scares the shit out of me in the wet, and the last corner wet or dry is a bit unnerving coming up onto the straight (in any sub 1000kg car).

It's ripple strips are also like cliff faces haha.

As for the gymkhana guys - You'll find quite commonly automatic low power RWD cars win. Why? No gear changes, no wheelspin, just traction and steering

[Angreal]

As for the gymkhana guys - You'll find quite commonly automatic low power RWD cars win. Why? No gear changes, no wheelspin, just traction and steering

That there is some very depressing news, I guess I'll learn to drive smoothly with a feather touch foot. Mind you it explains why all the Skylines are no good. The spend most of the time in reverse.

[13r]

As for the gymkhana guys - You'll find quite commonly automatic low power RWD cars win. Why? No gear changes, no wheelspin, just traction and steering

wut?
You need to turn up to more of the PCC events bro lol.
It's now always either a well set up mini or well set up civic.

For the guys that take motorkhanas (theres no such thing as gymkhanas in NZ btw) seriously, suspension and wheels play a huge part in it...

[Donovan]

For the guys that take motorkhanas (theres no such thing as gymkhanas in NZ btw) seriously, suspension and wheels play a huge part in it...

For a tarmac gymkhana (motorkhana or whatever you want to call it), yes, for a skid pan or grasskhana, not so much.